Thanks to Moises Andre Nisenbaum I became acquainted with the very first person 
to write a computer program, namely Ada Lovelace. Her opinion which I also hold 
and seems to represent Bruno's opinion as well can be found in a quote of hers 
which can be found in the Wikipedia article about her. Here is an excerpt from 
that Wikipedia article, which I share for your edification and amusement. All 
the best - Bob

The notes are longer than the memoir itself and include (in Section G[57]), in 
complete detail, a method for calculating a sequence of Bernoulli numbers with 
the Engine, which would have run correctly had the Analytical Engine been built 
(only his Difference Engine has been built, completed in London in 2002).[58] 
Based on this work, Lovelace is now widely considered the first computer 
programmer[1] and her method is recognised as the world's first computer 
program.[59]
Section G also contains Ada Lovelace's famous dismissal of artificial 
intelligence. She wrote that "The Analytical Engine has no pretensions whatever 
to originate anything. It can do whatever we know how to order it to perform. 
It can follow analysis; but it has no power of anticipating any analytical 
relations or truths."
______________________

Robert K. Logan
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto 
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan
www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications








On 2015-06-24, at 8:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

> 
> On 23 Jun 2015, at 07:13, Emanuel Diamant wrote:
> 
>> My dear FIS-friends,
>>  
>> I apologize for not withstanding the pace of our discussion – you are 
>> already busy with the problem of “meaning” (Steven) and I am still preparing 
>> to answer Howard’s letter about linguistic biology…
>>  
>> Dear Howard,
>>  
>> Thank you for your suggestion to “add yet one more approach to the list: 
>> linguistic biology”. Unfortunately, I cannot accept it – because it is 
>> redundant and tautological.
>>  
>> My definition of information is Information is a linguistic description of 
>> structures observable in a given data set. (I apologize for non-providing 
>> any arguments for justifying this statement. Interested people have to go to 
>> my old papers in arXiv, Research Gate or on my web site 
>> http://www.vidia-mant.info ).
>>  
>> For the reasons provided just above (and elsewhere), any use of the term 
>> “Cognitive” implies the use of the term “information” (information 
>> processing) and, thus, already contains linguistic descriptions of data 
>> structures in a given data set (in a given object). Therefore, strengthening 
>> Cognitive biology with Linguistic biology is simply a tautology.
>>  
>> I also cannot accept the allusion to the Guenther Witzany’s work (as an 
>> attempt to justify the backup of Linguistic biology). Meanwhile, Witzany 
>> himself illuminate the issue in his response to Jerry Chandler (20.06.2015). 
>> I myself was enlightened about the subject by a 2004 paper of Eshel 
>> Ben-Jacob (et al) “Bacterial linguistic communication and social 
>> intelligence”, Trends in Microbiology, vol. 12, no. 8, pp. 366-372, August 
>> 2004. I have cited it in my 2009 paper “Some considerations on how the human 
>> brain must be arranged in order to make its replication in a thinking 
>> machine possible”, (.arXiv:1002.0184 [pdf]). I do not want to spend much 
>> more time on this issue and to draw our discussion farther in this direction.
>>  
>> Finally, I do not agree either with your statement that “each approach uses 
>> a helpful metaphor”. Brain as a computer metaphor (dominating in the past 
>> century) has exhausted its life cycle, “Computational” approach today is a 
>> harmful and a dangerous relict. It would be wise not to galvanize it again.
> 
> 
> People should not confuse the computationalist thesis in cognitive science, 
> and the use of this or that type of machine as a metaphor to understand the 
> brain functioning.
> 
> In fact those two things oppose themselves. It can be shown that IF we are 
> machine, then we cannot know for sure which machine we are, nor which 
> computations support us. Information arise from our statistical distribution 
> in the infinitely many computations (already present in a tiny segment of 
> arithmetic). The math shows that he quantum appearances are justified from 
> that computationalist hypothesis.
> 
> In fact computationalism appears to be a vaccine against all reductionistic 
> metaphors. The ideally correct machine, like Peano Arithmetic or 
> Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, already know that their soul is not a machine, 
> when translating Theaetetus definition of the soul (the knower) with Gödel 
> technic (as I did).
> 
> To believe in the negation of computationalism means to believe in some magic 
> or in some special actual infinities playing some rôle in the brain. 
> 
> Many people still believe that mechanism and materialism are compatible, but 
> there are not. 
> Choose your favorite poison, but it seems to me that the evidences we have 
> support much more mechanism than materialism.
> 
> Bruno
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>  
>> I apologize for the delayed response.
>>  
>> Best regards,
>> Emanuel.
>>  
>>  
>> From: howlbl...@aol.com [mailto:howlbl...@aol.com] 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 3:52 AM
>> To: emanl....@gmail.com; jerry_lr_chand...@me.com; pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
>> Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es; witz...@sbg.at
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS newcomer
>>  
>> re: cognitive biology vs computational biology.
>>  
>> may i suggest that you add yet one more approach to the list: linguistic 
>> biology.  per the work of Guenther Witzany.  also reflected in my book The 
>> God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates.
>>  
>> each approach uses a helpful metaphor.  no one approach sees the elephant in 
>> its entirety. so please let us use all three.
>>  
>> with oomph--howard
>>  
>> ----------------------
>> Howard Bloom
>> Howardbloom.net
>> Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of 
>> History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), 
>> Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st 
>> Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker), 
>> The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously 
>> enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic), 
>> The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates("Bloom's argument will rock 
>> your world." Barbara Ehrenreich), 
>> How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” 
>> Timothy Leary), and 
>> The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” 
>> David Swindle, PJ Media).
>> Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Former Visiting 
>> Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University
>> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder: The Group Selection 
>> Squad; Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Board Member and 
>> Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board Member: 
>> Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project. 
>> Founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab. Member: New York Academy of Sciences, 
>> American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological 
>> Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, 
>> International Society for Human Ethology. Scientific Advisory Board Member, 
>> Lifeboat Foundation. Advisory Board Member, The Buffalo Film Festival. 
>> Editorial board member, The Journal of Space Philosophy.
>>  
>> In a message dated 6/19/2015 9:22:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
>> emanl....@gmail.com writes:
>>  
>> Dear Jerry,
>>  
>> Thank you for responding to my post.
>> Thank you very much for an attempt to read and to understand my Vienna 
>> Symposium related publications.
>>  
>> I apologize for a delay in my response – I was trying to read and to 
>> understand your papers (“Algebraic Biology” and “Physical Foundations of 
>> Organic Mathematics”). Unfortunately, I did not understand much of what you 
>> are talking there (about biological computations).
>> Never mind, it is my fault, not yours. To my shame, I often also do not 
>> understand what other people on the forum are writing too.    
>>  
>> As to me, I think (and write) that the era of a computational approach to 
>> science and nature studies is over and we are gradually replacing it with a 
>> cognitive approach. (Computational biology, Computational ecology, 
>> Computational neuroscience, Computational genomics, Computational chemistry, 
>> Computational endocrinology, Computational intelligence, Computational 
>> linguistics and so on are now being replaced with Cognitive biology, 
>> Cognitive ecology, Cognitive neuroscience, Cognitive genomics, Cognitive 
>> endocrinology, Cognitive intelligence, Cognitive linguistics, and even 
>> Cognitive computing).
>>  
>> By definition, computational approaches imply intensive data processing, 
>> while Cognitive approaches imply dedicated information processing. What is 
>> the difference? Unfortunately, FIS forum does not dwell on this issue.
>>  
>> I was pleased to hear from Prof. Kun Wu (at his opening lecture in Vienna) 
>> that “By means of the reformation, all scientific and philosophical domains 
>> are facing an integrative trend of paradigm reform, which I name as 
>> “informationalization of science”, (The quotation is from one of his 
>> presentation slides).
>>  
>> As you can see, my assertions are very close to what Prof. Kun Wu claims, 
>> but far from what you (and other mainstream FIS contributors) obey and 
>> adhere to.
>>  
>> I am a newcomer to FIS and I do not intend to preach in the others’ temple. 
>> But Prof. Kun Wu is one of the founding fathers of the Philosophy of 
>> Information. Therefore, it would be wise for you to be in an agreement with 
>> his postulates.
>>  
>> Best regards,
>> Emanuel Diamant.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Jerry LR Chandler [mailto:jerry_lr_chand...@me.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 8:42 PM
>> To: Emanuel Diamant
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS newcomer
>>  
>> Dear Emanuel:
>>  
>> Thanks for posting your views on Research Gate.
>>  
>> Interesting perspective, but...  the essence of biology / biological 
>> computation are empirical observations that are highly irregular in nature. 
>> One must separate the concepts of structures from functions in the languages 
>> of chemistry and biology.
>>  
>> You may wish to look at the concepts of languages from your perspectives.
>>  
>> Several of my online available papers will provide more substance for these 
>> comments.
>>  
>> Cheers
>>  
>> jerry
>>  
>>  
>> On Jun 15, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Emanuel Diamant wrote:
>>  
>> 
>> Dear FISlists,
>>  
>> I am a newcomer to the FIS discussion table. The debate that is going on in 
>> your list-exchange is very interesting to me, but frankly, for the most of 
>> the time, I only guess about what you are talking – my vocabulary and my 
>> notions of Information are quite different from yours. Nevertheless, I would 
>> like to add my voice to the ongoing discourse – I would like to direct you 
>> to my page on the Research Gate 
>> (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Emanuel_Diamant) to see my uploads 
>> from the last IS4IS Vienna Conference. Maybe you will find them interesting.
>>  
>> Best regards,
>> Emanuel Diamant.
>>  
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>>  
>> 
>> 
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> 
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
> 
> 
> 
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