Dear Krassimir, dear all,

I have noticed that some descriptions of information make use of
anthropocentric metaphors and that might be misguiding (for instance,
subjective and objective information (Sung)). Agent is a concept that
retains some sort of action-theoretic background but at the same time
assumes the existence of nonhuman agents. Agency would be then a causal
relation wherein the agent "causes" some sort of effects.

I don`t feel confortable with this concept. I prefer the the concept of
observer. But this one is problematic too, for the same reason: it is
supposed that a human is there watching, feeling, measuring, etc.

I think we have to get rid of these humanistic assumptions in order to gain
insight into the issues we want to explore.

Definitely I don`t think I have the answer, but following D. Hofstadter, H.
von Foerster, N. Luhmann and others we could think of a agent/observer as a
self-referential loop. Most of information processing devices consist of a
design of some sort of feedback loop.  I don`t know if we could translate
this idea to all the kinds of systems we all deal with. But it would be
worth finding out.

An operative loop enables the differentiation of system and environment.
The system acquires the capacity to control its own behavior. At some point
its internal states are so many that it biffucartes and grow complex.
Subsystems can differentiate by the same mechanism. So, that`s my point:
one have to look for self-referential loops in order to find the

An intelligent agent would be some kind of loop (strange loop, maybe). It`s
just a hypothesis anyway...

Best regards,
El oct 15, 2017 6:29 PM, "Krassimir Markov" <> escribió:

> Dear FIS Colleagues,
> After nice collaboration last weeks, a paper Called “Data versus
> Information” is prepared in very beginning draft variant and already is
> sent to authors for refining.
> Many thanks for fruitful work!
> What we have till now is the understanding that the information is some
> more than data.
> In other words:
>      d = r
>      i = r + e
> where:
>      d => data;
>      i => information;
>      r => reflection;
>      e => something Else, internal for the Agent (subject, interpreter,
> etc.).
> Simple question: What is “Agent”?
> When an entity became an Agent? What is important to qualify the entity as
> Agent or as an Intelligent Agent? What kind of agent is the cell? At the
> end - does information exist for Agents or only for Intelligent Agents?
> Thesis: Information exists only for the Intelligent Agents.
> Antithesis: Information exists at all levels of Agents.
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
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