Cari Tutti, la distinzione tra materialisti e idealisti, corpo e anima (o spirito), materia e energia è interfacciata o intermediata dall'informazione. L'informazione è indispensabile per la conoscenza di tutto ciò che costituisce la realtà dell'esistenza o l'esistenza della realtà del mondo. Se ciò è vero la materia è un modo o una forma di essere dell'energia e l'energia è un modo o una forma di essere della materia. Se la conoscenza di questo mondo è costituita dall'informazione tutto è quantizzato in bit. Ma i bit non bastano. Bisogna andare oltre la comunicazione di Shannon inventando una teoria che consideri l'informazione come il concetto fondamentale, non solo della fisica, ma anche dell'economia, etc. Nella materia l'energia prende una forma particolare, come nell'energia la materia prende una forma particolare. Un bene economico è contemporaneamente o alternativamente un essere merce (materiale) e un essere segno (immateriale) o moneta. Quindi la realtà economica è ad un tempo liquida e illiquida, monetaria o non monetaria.Si tratta quindi di "modellizzare" l'intreccio o complementarità o compenetrazione o entanglement degli elementi che costituiscono la realtà della vita o la vita della realtà. I dati o le idee diventano fatti quando le loro forme significano qualcosa che diventa oggetto di comunicazione. In conclusione la nostra mente, con la collaborazione di tutti gli organi del nostro corpo, fornisce l'informazione ad-atta e ad-attabile per comunicare con gli altri, perchè comunicando si vive, non vivendo si comunica. In estrema sintesi, senza scadere in ragionamenti cervellotici, per informazione si deve intendere un'azione o processo che consente di dare forma alle persone (non agli individui) e a tutti gli altri esseri viventi (animalii e vegetali), alle idee e alle cose. Mentre dis-informazione è un'azione o un processo contrario al prendere forma, ma significa perdere o degradare la forma. Un saluto cordiale espresso senza alcuna presunzione o arroganza. Il miglior modo per comunicare è rispettare tutti, anche quelli che la pensano e la dicono diversamente da noi. Francesco Rizzo
2017-11-02 0:25 GMT+01:00 Sungchul Ji <s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu>: > Hi Michell and FISers, > > > "*Data* is that what we see by using the *eyes*. *Information* is that > what > we do not see by using the eyes, but we see by using the *brain*; > because it is the background to that what we see by using the eyes." > > > This paragraph contains the following pairs or relations: > > > Data ~ eyes > > Information ~ brain > > > Since eyes cannot function without the brain but the brain can without > eyes, I wonder if the above tetrad can be reduced to a triad: > > > Data ~ eyes/brain ~ information > > > which in turn may be explained in more detail using the ITR (Irreducible > Triadic Relation) diagram thus: > > > > f > g (*eyes/brain*) > > Reality --------------> Sign > ----------------------> Interpretant > > | (*Data*) > ^ > > | > | > > |___________________________ > ____________________________| > > h (*information*) > > > > *Figure 1. * The *data-information relation* explained on the basis of > ITR (Irreudicible Triadic Relation). The arrows read "determines" and > "interpretant is the effect the sign has on the mind of the interpreter > (biotic or abiotic). f = measurement; g = mental process *; *h = > correspondence or information flow. > > > > > If you have any question or comments, let me know. > > > Sung > > > > > > f g ( > *eyes/brain*) > > Reality ------------> Sign -------------------> > Interpretant > > | (*Data*) > ^ > > | > | > > |____________________________ > ______________________| > > h (information) > > > Figure 1. f = measurement or *eyes*; g = mental process or *brain; h > = correspondence or *information flow > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Fis <fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Michel Petitjean < > petitjean.chi...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 1, 2017 5:29 PM > *To:* fis > *Subject:* Re: [Fis] mind-mind > > Dear Krassimir, dear ALex, dear All, > > I agree with Krassimir that ideas cannot be transmitted directly from > Mind to Mind. > Being a materialist, I consider that only matter exists. > Does it mean that information is matter or energy? > No. > Let me discuss about this contradiction. > Parenthesis: energy is linked to mass through math modeling of > physical laws, and mass is a property of matter (could also be linked > to a modeling concept, but it is unimportant here). > People (not only scientists) build math and non math models to attempt > to explain what they observe. > Would you consider that math is matter? > Probably no. > Thus math and non math models that we build in our heads are not matter. > However they are produced through some biochemical process, and as > such they originate from matter. > Eventually, it could be considered that math and other concepts are a > somewhat special part of matter, but I think that claim would not be > accepted in our current language(s). > I consider that "soul", "god", and some other concepts are built in our > heads. > In my opinion, these concepts at best incoherent, if not worse. > Remark: I have nothing against religions, as far as believers do not > impose to me the consequences of their beliefs. > Religious beliefs must be private affairs. > Here, please accept my apologies if some of you are shocked by the > previous sentences. > > Information is like math: it is a modeling concept applied to some > situations. > However, I do not claim that information can be reduced to the math > concepts of information. > > To conclude: > > 1. I agree with Principle 1 of Pedro. > > 2. I assume potential contradictions in my views. No problem: I am a > poor philosopher. > Then,I never claimed that I am "built" to be able to elaborate a > coherent theory about life, consciousness , etc. May be it is > impossible. May be that cannot be decided, etc. > All that is opinions. It is just nice and funny to discuss information > and so on. > > 3. If I would vote for a definition of information, I would retain the > one of Karl. > Citing Karl in his post of the 3 Oct 2017: > "Data is that what we see by using the eyes. Information is that what > we do not see by using the eyes, but we see by using the brain; > because it is the background to that what we see by using the eyes." > > All my best, > > Michel. > > Michel Petitjean > MTi, INSERM UMR-S 973, University Paris 7, > 35 rue Helene Brion, 75205 Paris Cedex 13, France. > Phone: +331 5727 8434 <+33%201%2057%2027%2084%2034>; Fax: +331 5727 8372 > <+33%201%2057%2027%2083%2072> > E-mail: petitjean.chi...@gmail.com (preferred), > michel.petitj...@univ-paris-diderot.fr > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fpetitjeanmichel.free.fr%2Fitoweb.petitjean. > html&data=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu% > 7Cbf7631e0dff442f73d7508d5216fa58b%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca663 > 2ffe%7C1%7C0%7C636451685771465824&sdata=N%2F5Hj%2FvBN5SFKXEltkcE2H4N6RYM% > 2BWo8%2FLTWin1XSX4%3D&reserved=0 > > > Dear Alex and FIS Colleagues, > > > > Thank you for the nice remark. > > > > I had listen about such hypothesis but till now I had no participate in > any experiment of transferring ideas mind-mind. Maybe you had taken place > in such experiments. Please, give link to publications in scientific issues > about this very interesting phenomenon. > > > > Simple question: If it is possible to transfer ideas mind-mind, why you > use FIS List to send your ideas to us? > > > > Friendly greetings > > Krassimir > > > > PS: Unfortunately, this is my second post for this week and I please to > excuse me for answering the next posts after week. > > > > > > > > From: Alex Hankey > > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 12:21 PM > > To: Krassimir Markov > > Cc: FIS Webinar > > Subject: Re: [Fis] About 10 Principles > > > > RE: P1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy. > > > > M1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not > every reflection is information. Only subjectively comprehended reflections > are information. > > > > ME: Ideas can be transmitted directly from Mind to Mind - as in Rupert > Sheldrake's 7th Sense Communication. > > Lots of Quantitative Evidence that Materialists Prefer to Ignore. > > > > The Experience Information model of the Cognitive States shows that such > Information States Are Not Material Entities. > > They are based round instabilities in Networks of Neurons. > > > > The ability to model Seventh Sense Communication means that this > phenomenon becomes one of Four Separate Ways to Generate Empirical Evidence > in support of them. > > > > Hence Information is Not Matter or Energy. > > > > This is but one example of how Principles 1 to 5 can be supported. > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman% > 2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu% > 7Cbf7631e0dff442f73d7508d5216fa58b%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca663 > 2ffe%7C1%7C0%7C636451685771465824&sdata=qJBaUqZfyayrhfOTzhnS4GC% > 2B3x5Hm6FI0ls%2F2HmrSmE%3D&reserved=0 > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > >
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