Nice to hear your comments; after all, the employees there are just people too; but it's the influence of a culture started long ago (billg: "I think Jobs needs to learn to program" -- and this coming from a Basic programmer /:-\
I'm not unaware at all that there are those from ms that read these forums; nothing I say I'm afraid of nor is it extreme. I'm keenly aware of their activity moreso than I used to be. Although I appreciate your candore, I'm not sure you are addressing the concern here for Flex in FP8 and 8.5 (I've seen some new problems popup just since FP8; and am looking into this)..here's the end all: 1. Sun's JVM licensed by MS was hacked by them to perform poorly. Sun proved this. 2. Microsoft took specific anti-competitive steps to make Apple's QuickTime perform poorly; this also has been proven and has been argued. 3. Rick Segal, not someone I take kindly to by any means at this point now, and someone who (well you can do your own research), actually argues against Microsoft on the Blue Mountain v Microsoft hack issue; this suggests an unstable wavering by Rick; he's hasn't been sure at times where to draw the line of speaking the truth. 4. There's a host of other examples all leading to one thing: FLASH has been "something to deal with" and this WILL BE MORE OF AN ISSUE WITH AVALON. So I appreciate your comments and you seem cool and neutral; but I was simply addressing that the threat of potential "backdoor" type botching by MS to crush true innovation (yeah I know it's a highly used phrase but it's true). I really think there is a serious need for someone to monitor this actively as Avalon reaches release. I welcome anyone from ms to debate; and any future reference to any public stmts of mine is welcomed as they are directly associated with other events I'd gladly discuss in that context. I won't go away; sometimes it's best not too know too much in this world; but now I do and it's not conspiracy theory (the big denial defense to some), but it is a consistent philosophy that's just, well, I'd say it's essentially almost a loser mentality, rather than the true transparent competitor who can debate, think, and not lose their cool and digress into becoming a sneak...that's not competition; that's a mal-formed desperation with a self-image that's false. -r --- Dave Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am a former lead Product Manager from the .NET > servers team at > Microsoft. I think I have a pretty good perspective > here <smile> > > They have a saying in Redmond. > > "Its better to chase tail lights then blaze head > lights" > > In other words, let everyone else go establish the > market, let > everyone else mkae mistakes, then swoop in builing > the better > mousetrap and take the market away. > > I can also pretty much guarantee they read these > forums. We used to > send half a dozen people to JavaOne. > > They wont lie down, but they also don't always come > in with that tail > light strategy and win. They often don't actually. > > In the end, choose the right technology today for > your business. You > can never predict the future. > > <I have all kinds of fun MSFT sayings if you're ever > bored> > > -- > Dave Wolf > Cynergy Systems, Inc. > Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner > http://www.cynergysystems.com > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Office: 866-CYNERGY > > > --- In [email protected], Robert Thompson > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > That's cool, but believe me, I've seen things that > one > > should not see from actual Microsoft documents. > > > > Flash is here to stay, but I believe a battle will > > ensue in the next year or so and it will be > > "diversionary" as is always the case with ms. > > > > They are smart people but apply less of their > smarts > > to products, and more of it to very diversionary > ways > > to offset who might be to blame. > > > > Take the Java JVM, they licensed it, gave a > diplomatic > > outward idea of supporting it, and it was found > during > > trial that they purposely hacked it to perform > poorly. > > > > They will _not_ I believe do this in IE7 -- but I > _do_ > > believe it's entirely possible for them to use > > co-branded browsers of theirs to "accidently > > purposely" pass off bad code to other markets. > > > > It always takes a offensive position with people > like > > this; they live by a different philosophy and are > very > > persistent and clever in diversionary tactics of > > long-term competition; patient also. > > > > Avalon is good; good for Windows. But the essence > of > > Flash is great performance on multiple platforms, > and > > it will take good graphics engines in OSX and > Linux > > and Flash support of them to keep competetive. > > > > Remember, unfortunately IE and Windows still > dominate. > > > > What I've found is MS competes nominally when on a > > level playing field; they are the typical "Born on > 3rd > > Base and wake up thinking they hit a triple play" > > people. > > > > All I'm saying is this; I'm on Macromedias side; > I'm > > not looking for the destruction of MS, but I am > very > > aware of what they are, who they are (they are > what > > they do and they can never escape that), and the > fact > > that I believe those high up such as billg and > mulglia > > and alchin etc. and even > whats-his-shiny-head-name, > > they believe it's perfectly fine in their hearts > to > > compete like they do -- Please just keep an eye on > > them Macromedia. I realize there's a need to > > cooperate -- but look them in the eye > diplomatically > > but fully realize there are documents that show > what > > kind of people they are and they cannot be trusted > > unfortunately until they have a long term proof of > it. > > > > -r > > > > --- Aldo Bucchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > ...I strongly > > > > believe with the coming of Avalon, and the > > > dramatic > > > > milestone in Video Flash Player 8 has made, > that > > > we > > > > will see the opportunistic activities to try > to > > > harm > > > > flash player... > > > > > > Yeah... it sometimes scares me to think that MS > > > could do something to harm FP. > > > But then, the only thing they really "could" do > is > > > to completely cut > > > support for the player in the newer versions of > > > their browser / OS / > > > or whatever ( I can't think of a smaller/simpler > > > boycott ). > > > BUT, since Flash content is so prevalent on the > net, > > > they would be > > > risking a major flee from IE to Firefox or any > > > other! What do you > > > think my little brother would do if he finds > that > > > the new version of > > > IE doesn't allow him to play his favorite flash > game > > > on the web.... > > > or my mom sees a zillion blank squares where > flash > > > ads were supposed > > > to go. > > > > > > and then I feel safe: flash is here to stay! > > > > > > > > > On 11/3/05, Robert Thompson > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > This is a good argument Dave. > > > > > > > > I agree AJAX is good in it's data retrieval; > but > > > my > > > > experiences thus far is that it is a "hack" > more > > > than > > > > anything. If you have any good url examples > maybe > > > > I'll reconsider this. > > > > > > > > To me, Search Engine Indexing is an issue here > > > also; > > > > that may not be important for Corprate > Intra-net, > > > but > > > > for the Cinematic eCommerce "experience" as > you > > > call > > > > it (and I agree) with the local data that can > be > > > > managed in an actual data-management paradigm > > > (again > > > > versus a hack) it is a huge selling factor. > > > > > > > > I have a method of indexing to Google until > there > > > is > > > > full Search Engine compliance and protocol > with > > > Flash. > > > > > > > > My main argument actually in all of this, is I > > > just > > > > know, and again, mark my words, that MS will > > > attempt > === message truncated === __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get Bzzzy! 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