Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex

Thu, 25 May 2006 09:36:47 -0700

My 2 cents as well..
 
We have been doing AJAX for 6 years - in the end we had pretty much what Flex 1.5 was - complete object-oriented environment with XHTML, custom tags, integrated webservices/java remoting, transparent dataservices, and do on.... We also had it up and running for 5 years at number of Fortune 1000 companies in the most demanding environments.
 
Now we are switching to Flex. Two main reasons : Browser and _javascript_
1. Incompatibilities in the browsers and need to support multiple browsers quickly kills any advanced controls - effort is unbelievable and easily accounts of 90% of the development time.
2. Robustness and performance of _javascript_: It is too slow and there is no machanism in the browser to insure the competeness of _javascript_ downloads. As a result, even the slightest problems on the network level require huge efforts on the framework level.
 
It is all curable on the system level. For demanding applications we had to develop following system components outside the browser (just to support AJAX and business needed functionality missing in the browser)
1. reliable pluggable protocol on the top of HTTP(s) to support guaranteed delivery/caching of data and code
2. cached factories for _javascript_ to allow faster instantiation of client-side _javascript_
3. print tempates enabler to allow full control of the printing environment without browser limitations.
The list goes on and on
 
Bottom line, serious AJAX apps require Flash Player equivalent. You can try to build it in _javascript_, but it is unrealistic. We tried to get browser makers adopt the forementioned enhancements, but they are pusing alternatives to AJAX of their own, so Flash seems the only option with enough market penetration.
 
Sincerely,
Anatole Tartakovsky
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: jwc_wensan
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:46 AM
Subject: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex

To all:

Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to
thinking.

I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents.

Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a
better "mousetrap".  I am currently developing applications with
Flex.  I prefer Flex.

However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal,
article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX.  It's
everywhere.  Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention".

I have been in the software business for over 27 years.  I have seen
many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap".  I also
realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is
developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic.  So why would they care
what a RIA app is developed with.  Probably not.

In the end it is the application not the engine.

There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and
Apple/Macs.  Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has
less the 5% of the market.

Can Adobe accept 5% market share?

You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases
Atlas.  And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or
the evil empire.  Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and
I say will use their product.

What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to
convince management that the Flex product is better.  Especially
when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that.

AJAX is getting all the hype.  Right or wrong these are the facts. 
They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as
their own.

My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate.  If you
think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far
behind.  You will be left behind always playing catch-up.  If
you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start
now.

To be better and say you are better is not enough.  If the industry
has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes
too late.

>From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last
year.  Compare that to Adobe Flex.  Adobe you are asking developers
to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your
commitment to us.

Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as
a whole about the value of Flex.

Again, just my opinion.

Sincerely,

Jack






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