I'll respond on the blog. :-D On 4/21/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
John I agree with you on a lot of the points, but I am driven by the past, present and future and it's murky on both brands to be honest. I get were Microsoft are going, I don't get were Adobe ar going so I'm affiliated to the MS Brand for my RIA going forward Want to know why? http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/04/22/thanks-silverlight-you-just-validated-ria-wrong-here-s-why.aspx I decided to make a post about my history with Flash/FLEX from 2002 to 2007and hopefully illustrate why I prefer Microsoft's thoughts in the end and also disagree with Flash vs Silverlight discussions. I think they are still different technologies that may have an overlap in a few spots, but the direcion is different. On 4/22/07, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Scott, you are right about co-existence. I've been following WPF (and > /e) for a year now. Silverlight has quite a ways before competing with Flash > but it is clear there is a market for Silverlight. > > Bottom line, competition breeds innovation, IMO. With Silverlight being > here...Flash HAS to step up and I mean the player. This is only going to > make Adobe seriously make some big advancements. Not that they have been > lacking with updates but now the pressure is on. > > I mean...who's pushed Flash in the last few years? MM/Adobe developers > and the community. That's all well and good but people will be looking at > Silverlight apps/sites/animations and saying "I wish Flash could do this!" > This would be big time pressure on Adobe to produce results. > > * Silverlight will not crush Flash. > * Flash is no longer the only player in the game. > * Both have their own markets. > * Flash will be on top for many years to come. > * I'm happy Silverlight is as good as it is and still growing. > (remember, v1 isn't out yet and it has some Flash's new abilities) > > Disclaimer: > I'm a Flash Platform geek to the core. Being objective is just a good > quality. ;-) > > On 4/21/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > Paul, > > > > How many enterprise / companies do you know are shopping around for > > electronic forms built in PDF vs SAAS solutions? PDF is a danger in some > > organisations, it's something they want to put as much distance away from as > > possible and prefer to leave them buried in the Document Management > > Solution(s). I'm not saying it's not worth the persuit (I think MSFT has > > some stuff in this space as well, forgive me as I've not cared to look into > > what they are) but do so *NOT* at the expense of FLEX/RIA development > > world-wide. > > > > 2002 RIA Theory was written down, people bought it (I for one, hey he > > also was the brains behind CF, so I owe my mortgage to his last idea, so > > figured he'd be worth the second). It's 2007 and RIA is supposed to be > > bigger! Yet, isn't as widespread. > > > > So, Microsoft are looking to give developers access to three tiers of > > User Experience through a more mature approach that goes beyond the runtime > > stck with a focus on the developers initially, get them on firm footing, > > then go look at the higher ends of town as by this point developers, whom > > are just as important, have validated the substance of the technology on > > merit. > > > > Good Experience > > AJAX / HTML / CSS > > > > Great Experience > > Silverlight > > > > Ultimate Experience > > Windows Presentation Foundation > > > > > > ASP.NET <http://asp.net/> 2.0 has reduced effort by up to > > two-thirds since ASP 1.0 was produced, I say this as being a > > Coldfusion developer for 9 years I'm amazed at how fluent one is able to go > > from ASP to AJAX, so I can only hint that going from ASP.NET<http://asp.net/>AJAX to Silverlight is going to be enormous in productivity gains and with > > the right tools, this hopefully should seem effortless. Steve.B looked > > like a loon when he jumped up and down about "Developers, Developers, > > Developers" but he was right, this is where the focus should be at the start > > of technology, expand when you get their blessing first and this is based > > off of "uptake". > > > > Validating RIA? Hate to break the news to one and all, but Microsoft's > > focus is to stimulate the online/offline application market whom have been > > using DHTML solutions for years, to get more robust and scaleable by > > offering the above three tiers of experience potential. Flash has it's own > > agenda, and Microsoft isn't about to crush that - hence I why I echo, it's > > about co-existence not changing technology stacks. > > > > Adobe make great output, but I worry at times about the input as I > > know they can do better (similar with Microsoft, only reverse, great at > > input but at times need work on output). No two companies are perfect. > > > > I rant but I'm not buying Adobe's direction on this one - if I may say > > that clocked off MSFT's payroll and using Flex on my weekend(s). > > > > > > On 4/22/07, Paul DeCoursey <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > I agree that Adobe is ignoring a large market. The low cost > > > remoting > > > product kind of already exists in open source, third party, and in > > > house solutions. What Adobe is doing with Live Cycle is capturing > > > the > > > niche markets that do need PDF workflow in their RIA Applications. > > > These companies have deep pockets and will use these for projects > > > that > > > can save them millions of dollars a year. > > > > > > I don't think that Adobe needs to have the low cost remoting product > > > in their line, and I think that Adobe is counting on third parties > > > and > > > the community to provide those solutions. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com <flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Scott Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I got could point for point with you and sound like a goose, but > > > overall, > > > > I'll push back with a question. How many people on this list are > > > in > > > need of > > > > PDF work flow generation vs Remoting that's easier to work with on > > > > > > both JAVA > > > > and .Net while at the same time have a low cost barrier. I'd like > > > to > > > think > > > > that Scrapblog.com <http://scrapblog.com/>concepts could do more > > > with Adobe technology, instead > > > > they had to shop around and thankfully WebORB folks have a descent > > > product > > > > to cope with this burden. > > > > > > > > LiveCycle is just not ready to be slotted into RIA as it's still > > > somewhat > > > > foreign to the "RIA" momentum. It's forcing the issue. > > > > Microsoft has more to learn, and I'll be sure to flog them where I > > > can to > > > > make that happen. I'm in Seattle next week and i'm not there to > > > eat > > > > lunch/dinners and party, I have reasons and it's to do with Web > > > 2.0 > > > and RIA > > > > :) > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Regards, > > > > Scott Barnes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Scott Barnes > > http://www.mossyblog.com > > > > > > > -- > John C. Bland II > Chief Geek > Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com > --- > Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2 > Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.com > http://www.lifthimhigh.com - "Christian Products for Those Bold Enough > to Wear Them" > Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.org > Home of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org > > -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com
-- John C. Bland II Chief Geek Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com --- Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2 Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.com http://www.lifthimhigh.com - "Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to Wear Them" Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.org Home of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org
