Hi Helen,
Thanks for the pointers.
Our customers are all deployed to a public host - WebHost4Life - so we can't
run the SQL GUI executable.... that's a dilemma. Typically, each account we
buy from our host allows us a couple of SQL Servers and several mySQL
databases (we can buy more for $20 per year, or something like that).
I had hoped we could do the same things with FlexWiki that we do when we set
up customers for www.Qasper.com:
1. Set up a sub-domain and unzip the files to it, then set the rights to
RWXD for the required folders - 5 minutes.
2. Create a new, empty SQL server database using the control panel provided
by WebHost4Life. (BTW, WebHost4Life hosts databases on a different server
than the web page server.) - another 5 minutes
3. Through WebHost4Life's control panel, we access the db and run an
included SQL script that sets up the tables. - again, less than 5 minutes
4. Finally, we modify the web.config to set up the connection string to the
designated server and db... - a couple of minutes..
Total time we budget is 20 minutes, and we have a checklist we follow.
Then Qasper uses a typical User table to register users, handled by the
administrator. But this is done by the administrator logging in and
accessing the Admin panel of Qasper, as part of the standard runtime stuff.
This is the standard way of doing things, I believe, particularly with
respect to databases.
I'm sorry, but I don't like to do it the way FlexWiki does...
I much prefer the way we do it with Qasper. Qasper can use any kind of
database, from Access to mySQL, Oracle or SQL Server. We aren't reliant on
the built-in SQL Server support functionality in .NET (which, by the way, I
didn't even know .NET supported. Even if I did, I wouldn't stray from the
way we do it because our way is the way db setups have been done since time
began, I think).
I think it's a mistake to use such restrictive built-ins. It requires
special functionality on the server as I see it and that's probably the
problem with our installations.
And, I didn't know you had to run an EXE to set up FlexWikiSqlStore. So
therein likely lies the problem...
Re: permissions. I set all the permissions, from the top folder in FlexWiki
all the way down as full permission: RWXD so I think it must be something
else...
As to access and access rights, I'd written Craig privately with the
following (he suggested I put it up here for everyone to see):
*****************************************************
Craig had replied to one of my emails: >>Well, the most common usage for
FlexWiki is (probably) just a single >>namespace.<<
FD: ... I guess I just don't understand the direction you are taking with
FlexWiki.
If FlexWiki is to succeed, IMO, it has to be business-oriented, not a
techy-only thing deployable by the elite few IT people who understand such
stuff. Right now, it's the latter - very much so. It's cumbersome to use,
difficult to set up "namespaces", doesn't have a friendly built-in editor,
complex to set up user restrictions (what do I do when I have 500 employees
and I want to restrict a page to 6 or 7 - how do I know who they are or what
their usernames are?), and more. Also, if it doesn't run under VS2005
easily, you are eliminating thousands of developers like me who know how to
use VS to develop apps, but don't work at the detail level you are working
at.
<outbind://104/www.Qasper.com> www.Qasper.com is a huge product [22
modules, on-demand, SaaS], and it's quite successful. We have thousands of
users. Look at the home page - scroll down to the awards.. And there's many
more we just haven't bothered adding.
We wanted FlexWiki as a very important free-style adjunct to the structured
nature of Qasper, so that we could provide our users and customers with that
wonderful functionality only a wiki can offer.
With our customer base and a solid working FlexWiki, we could have gotten
FlexWiki out to thousands of potential users...
We wrote Qasper with VS2003 - nothing else. One of the guys here understands
what you were talking about - but he's in a minority. Most of us want to
simply get on with developing and deploying applications, not worrying about
command lines that don't work, or having to somehow modify VS to run in
debug mode with FlexWiki..
Don't get me wrong. FlexWiki has potential, but it is not going to succeed
unless it's made available to a much broader market of both developers and
potential end-users.
Users need training in how to use it - there's no built-in editor, and
nothing's intuitive. When it comes to setting up a project (ie.,
"namespace"), the whole thing goes back to being a techy-only interface.
A wiki is an information source, typically customizable and expandable by
all - it's a community of information.
However, in a business environment, I need the right to easily restrict who
can access/write to web pages and I certainly need to be able to restrict
who can access/write to various "namespaces".
The latter are the key to success in a business environment, Craig - they
represent Projects, and projects are the key element to making a Wiki a real
business tool. That's why your comment really surprises me.
Not only that, but collaboration is fundamental to business today, and the
Wiki should offer functionality that supports collaboration both at the open
"namespace" level and the restricted "namespace" level. It should easily
provide upload functionality, check-in, check-out, user notification and
many other things.
Even in a small business (like mine), I want to be able to set up a project
for 2 or 3 people, and restrict others. And, because I'm a businessman with
some programming expertise and not the other way around, I need a GUI
interface that not only works, but is easy to use and understand.
[If this isn't the direction for FlexWiki, then, IMO,] it will never
penetrate the business community at a serious level without this type of
functionality. Sure, maybe a couple of large enterprises that have IT staff
that can understand this stuff will take a shot at installing it, but they
will be few and far between.
I'm not sure what your vision is for this product - who is your target user?
What is the advantage FlexWiki has over others like Twiki, etc.
[I think that,] unless you provide user-friendliness and user interfaces,
along with having a clear vision as to what FlexWiki's purpose in life is,
you'll just go on and on trying to fight fires and bugs.
I thought V1.8 was fine, so I'm not sure what you wanted to do in V2.0. [I
was hoping the] product [would be] more useable - friendlier, with better
interfaces and a built-in editor...
Regards,
Fred
*****************************************************
You can see what we were doing with FlexWiki V1.8 at:
http://qasperwiki.qasper000001.com/default.aspx. You can see we did a lot of
work to create a default set of pages that customers could use to get
started. However, this is V1.8. It installed easily, but it, like V2.0,
lacks a good online editor, a user-friendly GUI for setting up projects, and
so on. I was hoping V2.0 would focus on these issues. This was well over a
year ago. We've been waiting for the V2.0 and it seems much more difficult
to manage, even without the user interfaces.
I know Craig has his hands full, and that this is strictly part-time, but
still, if FlexWiki is to succeed, I truly believe what I say above is
necessary...
For example, if somebody as dumb as me could actually install and compile
FlexWiki in VS2005 (I can't - because there aren't any instructions on how
to do it, step-by-step for dummies), I or many other developers could jump
in and help. I know I certainly would, and I'd hire programmers in a New
York minute to help - particularly to go after the user and administrative
interface and make it easier to use. But I don't understand the way it's put
together, so I can't really do anything.
Also, I'd sent this:
*****************************************************
...look at this comment on TWiki's site:
We use TWiki internally to manage documentation and project planning for our
products. said Eric Baldeschwieler, Director of Software Development of
Yahoo! Our development team includes hundreds of people in various locations
all over the world, so web collaboration is VERY important to us. TWiki has
changed the way we run meetings, plan releases, document our product and
generally communicate with each other. We're great fans of your work!
That's what I'm talking about - manage documentation and project planning
along with web collaboration.
Those are the keys I talked about in making FlexWiki a success.
Now I've never used TWiki since I really want to work with a .NET wiki, so I
have no idea how they handle document uploading and filing and project
setup, but I suspect it's done well, based on the above comment.
*****************************************************
I want to see FlexWiki succeed. I'm not a critic, I'm a supporter.
Regards,
Fred
_____
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helen
Ersando
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:50 PM
To: FlexWiki Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Flexwiki-users] Another unidentifiable error.
hello,
i have downloaded version 2.0.0.52.. and i have successfully set up a sql
provider namespace... hmn, maybe this is not really a big deal... or
something that is really making sense... but here's what i did: (or should i
say, i followed thru the steps in this link
http://flexwiki.com/default.aspx/FlexWiki/SqlProvider.html)
1. create a database thru the SqlStoreManagerGui exe (it is inside the tools
folder as part of the download package [tools])
2. go to the admin page and add a new provider of type SqlNamespaceProvider
3. then i begin using the new sql namespace... i checked on the
FlexWikiSqlStore database and it did saved the new namespace and the
topics/pages i created.
fred, i also got the runtime error you've had... what i did is i set the
security permission of the flexwiki folder to allow aspnet users to have
access to it, and that solves my problem... :)
my concern now is how can we be able to create sql namespaces beforehand, i
mean before we could deploy it to the wiki users like "all" namespaces are
of type sqlprovider already...
and also how to set access control... like these pages are for read access
only, while these pages are for read/write access... OR this particular
group of users have access to this page or these set of pages; and
likewise...
thanks,
helen
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