The removal of the extra space only impacts the 'View source'. All output in
all browsers, IE (2 - 7), Firefox(2-3) and Safari(2-3) all render lists
identically, before and after the change. The extra space is never output in
the browser rendered list. This means that the wiki syntax for the user does
not change, whereas if the space was left in a user community would be using
a slightly different input syntax than is currently documented.
The argument against having the space is that the standards do not include
starting a list with a space. Browser writers are aware however that users
would insert a space as the first character of a listitem and now strip it
if present.
The standard allows a css modifier - li.before to be used to insert a space
(or any other character or characters) that is rendered before the first
real character of a listitem. I initially found this modifier because I got
a surprise when I found the space was discarded by the browser even though
it was in the html.
In all the test lists I had available there were no instances where removing
the whitespace caused the output to change in any browser. If anyone can
present an instance where the output is changed I will revert, otherwise the
change should stand as I believe the inclusion of the space in the first
place was an oversight that had no impact at that time. Benno has presented
a case where the space causes an issue.
There are many cases in FlexWiki where input and output have not been
verified to be standards compliant. It is hoped that by creating a new
parser there will be an opportunity to more easily separate and view all
input and output conditions more readily. This is especially true of output
for output for a number of conditions including lists, anchors within
headers or links, etc.
John Davidson
On 1/28/08, Jimmy Sieben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> A couple of questions come to mind:
>
> 1) What would the user expect from principle of least surprise? IMO that
> is what should be implemented
>
> 2) Why does it matter if there is a space in the HTML output? Put
> another way, what are arguments for having the space, and what are
> arguments against having the space?
>
> 3) Are there any compelling use cases that *require* having the space?
> Are there any that require *not* having the space?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Nathan Jones
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:22 PM
> To: FlexWiki Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Flexwiki-users] Space between <li> and its content
>
> Hi guys, I dunno if this is a good idea. What if I want the space
> there? Then when I complain, you'll have to switch it the other way or
> provide a syntax to allow me to specify that I want leading
> whitespaces.
>
> The notation is clearly defined in this case, and while it may seem
> unconventional in the face of html, the flexwiki syntax is not html,
> so it can't really be compared to it. Whitespace _is meaningful_ in
> wikitalk and the flexwiki syntax.
>
> I'd vote to not change the behavior of this, and instead note it in
> the docs or something.
>
> -nathan
>
> On Jan 24, 2008 6:38 PM, John Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think your solution to strip whitespace is reasonable, and will
> implement
> > it in the next update series. Can you please enter a bug in the
> sourceforge
> > tracker and assign it to me.
> >
> >
> > As Derek stated, nothing is easy, which is also the case here. I can
> handle
> > the fix in a single line of code, but will have to adjust hundreds of
> lines
> > of testing as they are set to require the space and must be modified
> before
> > the update will build.
> >
> > John Davidson
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/24/08, Benno Dielmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > > Thanks a lot for your investigation of this issue.
> > > My target platform is IE6 and IE6 removes the space in its DOM. IE7
> is
> > said to
> > > be much more standards compliant so no wonder it doesn't remove the
> > space...
> > >
> > > It seems that FlexWiki includes the space between * and the list
> text into
> > the
> > > html. I didn't expect this so I never tested it. Thanks for pointing
> me to
> > > this.
> > >
> > > Still I think this is a (minor, but not for me) bug in FlexWiki. It
> might
> > be
> > > better to strip any leading and trailing white space before
> generating the
> > > <li> html. Otherwise I'll have my users to write the lists like
> > >
> > > *item 1
> > > *item 2
> > > *item 3
> > > *item 4
> > >
> > > and so on for my layout to work both in IE6 and IE7. This is not
> very
> > > intuitive and the whitespace in html serves no purpose at all. This
> should
> > be
> > > an easy fix, shouldn't it? Unfortunately, I haven't got a .NET
> development
> > > environment set up so I can't try...
> > >
> > > I could remove eventual leading whitespace via javascript but this
> isn't
> > very
> > > desirable performance-wise...
> > >
> > > li:before isn't supported by IE as far as I know (maybe IE7 supports
> it?).
> > >
> > > Thanks again for spending time on this,
> > >
> > > Benno.
> > >
> > > On Thursday 24 January 2008 John Davidson wrote:
> > > | I have checked the source code and there is no addition of a space
> in
> > the
> > > | output that is then removed by one browser but not another. I have
> > tested
> > > | with Safari 3, Firefox 2 and IE7 (not IE6) and source input is
> > identical.
> > > | See the bottom of the reference [1] topic, where I have created
> lists,
> > some
> > > | with spaces after the wiki list identifier and others where there
> are no
> > > | spaces.
> > > |
> > > | Where I had a space
> > > | * first line
> > > | I get a <li> first line</li>
> > > |
> > > | Where I have no space
> > > | *second line
> > > | I get <li>second line</li>
> > > |
> > > | In both cases the output of the standard CSS for FlexWiki gives
> correct
> > > | output.
> > > |
> > > | If you are using the 'content' CSS modifier for a list then you
> should
> > see
> > > | my sample at [2], where I explicitly add a space to li.before so
> that
> > there
> > > | is one there all the time.
> > > |
> > > |
> > > | If this does not help please feel free to create a brief sample on
> a
> > > | webpage at ods.dyndns.org and let me know when it is there so that
> I can
> > > | see a coded sample of the issue, rather than just an explanation
> which
> > may
> > > | not get across the problem.
> > > |
> > > | [1]
> http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/Test.html[2]
> > > |
> http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/FleXhtmlDemo.html
> > > |
> > > | John Davidson
> > > |
> > > | On 1/24/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > | > Hi all,
> > > | >
> > > | > another FlexWiki issue that bugs me: FlexWiki inserts a space
> between
> > > | > list tags and its contents:
> > > | >
> > > | > <ul>
> > > | > <li> List item</li>
> > > | > </ul>
> > > | >
> > > | > What I do is via javascript I insert spans at the top of <li>
> > contents.
> > > | > Unfortunately, IE6 silently removes the leading space character
> when
> > > | > generating the dom while Firefox leaves it there. So the
> resulting
> > thing
> > > | > is
> > > | >
> > > | > <li><span /> List item</li>
> > > | >
> > > | > in Firefox and
> > > | >
> > > | > <li><span />List item</li>
> > > | >
> > > | > in IE. This time I'm happy about the IE way, because the
> needless
> > space
> > > | > in Firefox ruins my layout...
> > > | >
> > > | > The solution would be to find the code in the FlexWiki
> sourcecode that
> > > | > adds (or doesn't remove) this whitespace and fix this. I already
> > looked
> > > | > through the code but wasn't able to find the right place due to
> my
> > poor
> > > | > knowledge of FlexWikis inner workings...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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