1) The user expects * item
to look like lists usually look in html. *item looks identically to the above in any browser. If whitespace would really matter, the second example should be rendered without any space between bullet and item in browsers. It would be possible with css to style a list that way, but I don't believe anybody wants this. At the moment it is unintuitive for my users to write their list like the second example just because I need to get rid of the whitespace (see 3). 2) Normally, browsers ignore whitespace that isn't between two words unless it is defined as a non breaking space ( ). So if there are any arguments for having this space, it should better be output as in my opinion. 3) I use nested lists generated by FlexWiki to create a navigation tree. There is a topic with a navtree property containing the lists in FlexWiki syntax where the users could define the tree contents. The tree then gets included in the left border and on every page load, modified heavily by javascript to make branches foldable and unfoldable etc. For this, I insert <span>s before the first item of list items that contain sublists. Now if these list items begin with a space, the space now is between the span and the item and thus becoming significant and rendered by the browser. This makes it very difficult to control the space between the <span> and the item, especially because items in the sublist should become indented by the same amount of space. In addition to this, IE6 "corrects" html code when it generates its dom tree, that is, it removes the leading whitespace. Firefox leaves it in and so does IE7 (says John Davidson). The result is different look in FF/IE7 and IE6. Hopefully my use case is compelling enough... ;-) By the way, there are other cases, where FlexWiki strips whitespace where it shouldn't: If you define a property containing a list (and only a list), FlexWiki strips leading whitespace (spaces or tabulators) when you include the property's contents into another topic (or border) and thus the first list item isn't recognized any more as the beginning of the list. A workaround is to let wikitalk output the list string because it doesn't strip whitespace, but this adds unnecessary clutter to the topic source. Are there any compelling use cases where stripping leading tabulators when including properties is needed? ;-) On Monday 28 January 2008 Jimmy Sieben wrote: | A couple of questions come to mind: | | 1) What would the user expect from principle of least surprise? IMO that | is what should be implemented | | 2) Why does it matter if there is a space in the HTML output? Put | another way, what are arguments for having the space, and what are | arguments against having the space? | | 3) Are there any compelling use cases that *require* having the space? | Are there any that require *not* having the space? | | | -----Original Message----- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of | Nathan Jones | Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:22 PM | To: FlexWiki Users Mailing List | Subject: Re: [Flexwiki-users] Space between <li> and its content | | Hi guys, I dunno if this is a good idea. What if I want the space | there? Then when I complain, you'll have to switch it the other way or | provide a syntax to allow me to specify that I want leading | whitespaces. | | The notation is clearly defined in this case, and while it may seem | unconventional in the face of html, the flexwiki syntax is not html, | so it can't really be compared to it. Whitespace _is meaningful_ in | wikitalk and the flexwiki syntax. | | I'd vote to not change the behavior of this, and instead note it in | the docs or something. | | -nathan | | On Jan 24, 2008 6:38 PM, John Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | > I think your solution to strip whitespace is reasonable, and will | | implement | | > it in the next update series. Can you please enter a bug in the | | sourceforge | | > tracker and assign it to me. | > | > | > As Derek stated, nothing is easy, which is also the case here. I can | | handle | | > the fix in a single line of code, but will have to adjust hundreds of | | lines | | > of testing as they are set to require the space and must be modified | | before | | > the update will build. | > | > John Davidson | > | > On 1/24/08, Benno Dielmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: | > > Thanks a lot for your investigation of this issue. | > > My target platform is IE6 and IE6 removes the space in its DOM. IE7 | | is | | > said to | > | > > be much more standards compliant so no wonder it doesn't remove the | > | > space... | > | > > It seems that FlexWiki includes the space between * and the list | | text into | | > the | > | > > html. I didn't expect this so I never tested it. Thanks for pointing | | me to | | > > this. | > > | > > Still I think this is a (minor, but not for me) bug in FlexWiki. It | | might | | > be | > | > > better to strip any leading and trailing white space before | | generating the | | > > <li> html. Otherwise I'll have my users to write the lists like | > > | > > *item 1 | > > *item 2 | > > *item 3 | > > *item 4 | > > | > > and so on for my layout to work both in IE6 and IE7. This is not | | very | | > > intuitive and the whitespace in html serves no purpose at all. This | | should | | > be | > | > > an easy fix, shouldn't it? Unfortunately, I haven't got a .NET | | development | | > > environment set up so I can't try... | > > | > > I could remove eventual leading whitespace via javascript but this | | isn't | | > very | > | > > desirable performance-wise... | > > | > > li:before isn't supported by IE as far as I know (maybe IE7 supports | | it?). | | > > Thanks again for spending time on this, | > > | > > Benno. | > > | > > On Thursday 24 January 2008 John Davidson wrote: | > > | I have checked the source code and there is no addition of a space | | in | | > the | > | > > | output that is then removed by one browser but not another. I have | > | > tested | > | > > | with Safari 3, Firefox 2 and IE7 (not IE6) and source input is | > | > identical. | > | > > | See the bottom of the reference [1] topic, where I have created | | lists, | | > some | > | > > | with spaces after the wiki list identifier and others where there | | are no | | > > | spaces. | > > | | > > | Where I had a space | > > | * first line | > > | I get a <li> first line</li> | > > | | > > | Where I have no space | > > | *second line | > > | I get <li>second line</li> | > > | | > > | In both cases the output of the standard CSS for FlexWiki gives | | correct | | > > | output. | > > | | > > | If you are using the 'content' CSS modifier for a list then you | | should | | > see | > | > > | my sample at [2], where I explicitly add a space to li.before so | | that | | > there | > | > > | is one there all the time. | > > | | > > | | > > | If this does not help please feel free to create a brief sample on | | a | | > > | webpage at ods.dyndns.org and let me know when it is there so that | | I can | | > > | see a coded sample of the issue, rather than just an explanation | | which | | > may | > | > > | not get across the problem. | > > | | > > | [1] | | http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/Test.html[2] | | http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/FleXhtmlDemo.html | | > > | John Davidson | > > | | > > | On 1/24/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> | | wrote: | > > | > Hi all, | > > | > | > > | > another FlexWiki issue that bugs me: FlexWiki inserts a space | | between | | > > | > list tags and its contents: | > > | > | > > | > <ul> | > > | > <li> List item</li> | > > | > </ul> | > > | > | > > | > What I do is via javascript I insert spans at the top of <li> | > | > contents. | > | > > | > Unfortunately, IE6 silently removes the leading space character | | when | | > > | > generating the dom while Firefox leaves it there. So the | | resulting | | > thing | > | > > | > is | > > | > | > > | > <li><span /> List item</li> | > > | > | > > | > in Firefox and | > > | > | > > | > <li><span />List item</li> | > > | > | > > | > in IE. This time I'm happy about the IE way, because the | | needless | | > space | > | > > | > in Firefox ruins my layout... | > > | > | > > | > The solution would be to find the code in the FlexWiki | | sourcecode that | | > > | > adds (or doesn't remove) this whitespace and fix this. I already | > | > looked | > | > > | > through the code but wasn't able to find the right place due to | | my | | > poor | > | > > | > knowledge of FlexWikis inner workings... | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. 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