Thorsten wrote: > > I also find it rather interesting to read something about the 'invisible' > work behind the scenery - thank you for letting us know. It's sometimes > difficult to appreciate the work that is not directly seen, and it helps a > lot if you tell us. > > Thanks for the hard work. > > However, there is one sentence in your descriptions which I did not like, > because it expresses a sentiment which I do not like at all about the > Flightgear community. Please let me take the time to explain. The sentence > I mean is > > > > This sort > > of "Scenery development" is substantially different from craving for > > aaah's and oooh's on The Forum after you successfully managed to follow > > an elaborate and nicely illustrated recipe on how to build FlightGear > > Terrain. > > I don't know for a fact what you want to imply, but it reminds me of > something for example Vivian expressed a while ago with regard to judging > cockpits by visual detail. Vivian wrote: > > > I would suggest that as such it has little > > value for a Flight Sim such as ours which values accuracy above all > else. > > Bit of fun for the forum though. > > Let me now speak more to the audience at large, rather than to Martin > personally... In both statements I read the following ideas (I don't know > if you literally meant that - but that's what came across) > > * while the mailinglist is for real work, the forum is just for playing > around > > * consequently, while the forum can be impressed by cheap tricks and eye > candy, the 'real' development community cares about more important things > such as accuracy > > > Let me take a virtual needle and deflate the claims a bit. Until recently, > Flightgear's idea of a weather change was that pressure, wind and > visibility instantly jump from one value to another. Hardly what I would > call accuracy. Doing it differently by means of an interpolation isn't > even technically complicated (my 1/d weighted routine was 40 lines or so) > or would require terrible computing power - there was just nobody > sufficiently interested before 2.0.0 came out. > > Or, as Emmanuel Baranger has pointed out repeatedly, the fact the JSBSim > planes can frequently land on water can hardly be called accurate. > > I could go on, but I think my point is clear - the Flightgear development > community doesn't value accuracy as such, but each of you has some notion > of where he would like to have more accuracy, and each of you has areas > where he doesn't care about increased accuracy (for me, something like > convective clouds behaving differently over water than over land is > terribly important - having learned to fly gliders, I actually make use of > the clues provided by the clouds... On the other hand, instruments not > being precisely where they are in the original is not so important to me). > > So, by what argument can Vivian really claim that she values accuracy > higher than I do, when she has been fine with throwing the physics of > convective clouds out? > > I just can't see that any notion of accuracy is better than the other, and > I think it's just plain wrong to think that way that one group of people > likes accuracy and the other eye candy - visual detail is just another > aspect of accuracy. So instead of alienating people who care about > modelling, texturing, reflection shaders for exterior models and such > things by referring to all that as 'fun for the forum', I think you'd be > much better off by encouraging these people to improve the aspects they > are interested in and kindly teaching them to value also the aspects which > are important to you personally. > > Frankly, the elitist attitude expressed in such sentences bothers me. I > feel much more welcome in the forum - and as a result I usually write much > more of my observations, progress reports and ideas in the forum. I also > usually get as good response as I get here. So if you only read the list, > there's lots of info which you're missing. Doesn't have to bother anyone > here - maybe it's just not interesting to you personally. But I think it's > be way more useful to encourage people to help (there's plenty to do after > all) than to regard them all as not seriously enough. > > So, now what happens - a few folks get involved, follow the elaborate and > nicely illustrate recipe how to do things and actually produce scenery - > to hear that what they do is just 'craving for aaah's and oooh's on The > Forum', as opposed to 'the real thing'. Well - just how charming and > encouraging is that? > > I happen to enjoy the custom France, custom Ireland and custom Eastern > Europe sceneries. For me, an existing imperfect scenery is worth more than > a non-existing perfect scenery which I may be able to use in the future. > As far as I am concerned, the involved parties have earned their 'aahs and > oohs' (so has Martin). > > So, I would prefer much if we could get around to respecting the work of > others more - even if it's not what we are personally most interested. And > to kindly teaching each other to appreciate the aspects of realism we > value most, rather than considering anyone not sharing our personal > sentiment what needs to be accurate as not serious enough. > > Merry Christmas to you all! >
Some more accuracy would be appreciated from you: Vivian is man's name, and a few seconds checking would have told you that this is indeed the case. Did I ever say I was fine with throwing the physics of convective clouds out? Why do you mention me in this context? Oh and btw, we used to have gradual weather changes, did "someone" throw that away as well? It used to be the case that new code or major amendments were proposed for peer review and inclusion in the project here on the Devel list. Since we have migrated to Git, some of those with access rights to the source code (I am not one of then) seem to have abandoned this procedure. Did physics of convective clouds or its removal ever go through this procedure? I don't recall. It is true that the Devel list can seem less than friendly: this is perhaps at least in part due to the fact that we are not all native English speakers. I'm sure you will agree peer review is not always a pleasant experience, perhaps this colours your view of this list. I rarely visit the forums, since I prefer to spend my time more productively. But when I do I am stuck by the uniformed comment along the lines: "someone should do this" or "someone should do the other". More heat than light. Be advised though, they are not the best way of getting work into FG. Accuracy and realism are indeed the goals in FG - weather, scenery and aircraft models. OK, we're not there yet, and our quality control isn't as good as it might be. But we are all, in our various ways, working towards it. As the author of the reflection shader, and of several other bits of pure eye-candy as well as several highly detailed and accurate models, I really object to the misrepresentation of my views and of my sex. Vivian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl _______________________________________________ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
