Hey Everett, Great feedback. A quick question:
You're using aria-live for the installation progress indicator in Drupal. It sounds like the experience is comparable to using aria-valuetext. That's what we're currently using in the Infusion Progress component to provide more descriptive information. Aside from the bug in NVDA where aria-valuetext causes it to go silent, are there any other advantages to using aria-live instead of aria-valuetext for those descriptive labels? The one downside we've found with aria-live is that if progress happens quite quickly, the screen reader takes longer to read all the updates than the indicator took to finish. Thoughts or advice? Colin On 2010-09-22, at 6:07 PM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > I think the best choice is going to be use-case dependent. > > In Drupal 7 we use aria-live for the installation progress indicator, > basically because it was easy and quick to implement. But, we have something > like the following being read: > > 28%, installing Field module, 13 of 28 completed. > > Which is overly verbose, but you can see that in this case knowing about the > numeric progress alone is likely not enough. > > Probably a good generalization is to use valuenow, and to use aria-live on > any dynamically changing text that is visible. > > HTH, > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-09-22, at 5:55 PM, Justin Obara wrote: > >> Just to reiterate and summarize the results of Golam's findings, there are a >> few options we have to indicate progress: 1) aria-valueNow 2)aria-valueText >> and 3) aria-live. >> >> 1) aria-valueNow >> >> By using aria-valueNow, screen reader users will be presented with an >> experience that is likely consistent with most progress indicators they will >> encounter. In NVDA progress will be announced via tones of increasing pitch. >> In JAWS it will just announce the number assigned to aria-valueNow like >> "25". ORCA is able to read the progressbar's label. >> >> 2) aria-valueText >> >> Using aria-valueText can provide the user with more information about the >> progress. However, it provides a somewhat different experience than what >> users may be familiar with. Currently NVDA doesn't work when aria-valueText >> is present, but it would be conceivable that when it does support >> aria-valueText, it will not announce with tones but read the text instead. >> >> 3) aria-live could also be used, but the fact that the announcements can run >> on long after progress has actually completed, makes this solution seem less >> appealing. >> >> Hope that helps >> Justin >> On 2010-09-21, at 5:58 PM, Chowdhury, Golam wrote: >> >>> Hi Colin, >>> >>> I have completed testing progress with ORCA, JAWS_v11, and JAWS_v12(beta). >>> If we use aria-valuenow then JAWS_11 and JAWS_12(beta) indicates that the >>> progress has completed. If we use aria-live then both JAWS_v11 and >>> JAWS_v12(beta) mentioned completion of progress in IE and in FireFox was >>> very descriptive, also buffers information about progress. If we use >>> aria-valuetext then both JAWS_v11 and JAWS_v12(beta) mentioned completion >>> of progress in IE (pc-cursor and virtual-mode)and in FireFox was mentioning >>> percent completed. ORCA always reading the label in all cases. For more >>> information I have attached the test data, feel free to take a look at the >>> test data and provide any kind of suggestions. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> Golam Chowdhury >>> [email protected] | 416-977-6000 ext. 3962 >>> Software Developer >>> Inclusive Design Research Centre (IDRC) >>> OCAD University >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Colin Clark [[email protected]] >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:47 AM >>> To: Chowdhury, Golam >>> Cc: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: FLUID-3671 Screen reader a11y and usability issues with >>> Progress (esp. lack of feedback for screen reader users) >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Justin, Golam, and I chatted further about these issues in the IRC channel >>> today. Here's the log of our conversation: >>> >>> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/fluid-work+IRC+Logs-2010-09-21 >>> >>> We're hoping to identify an implementation that can provide a decent user >>> experience, so we're going to compare a few other screen readers to see how >>> they perform. Golam is playing around with Orca now, and we'll also take a >>> look at the latest version of JAWS. >>> >>> The takeaway from this investigation so far, I think, seems to be that the >>> implementation of ARIA's progress bar role is pretty buggy in most current >>> screen readers. We may also want to consider some additional labelling or >>> graceful degradation support to make this work even with older, buggier ATs. >>> >>> Any advice or suggestions? >>> >>> Colin >>> >>> On 2010-09-20, at 4:49 PM, Chowdhury, Golam wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Guys, >>>> >>>> Issues with Screen Reader: >>>> Current progress bar does not announce the progress bar status when using >>>> NVDA2010 screen reader using Fire Fox 3.5.9 and 3.6.9. >>>> >>>> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3671 >>>> >>>> During our testing we have found two options. Option one using >>>> aria-valuenow and option two using aria-live. Following I have outlined >>>> the pros and cons for both of the options. >>>> >>>> Option one using aria-valuenow: >>>> Pros: >>>> -Just need to comment out the aria-valuetext >>>> -Works in all cases >>>> -Behaves similar to other progress indicators >>>> -Doesn't buffer >>>> >>>> Cons: >>>> -Not descriptive in JAWS >>>> -Jaws doesn't announce completion >>>> >>>> Option two using aria-live: >>>> Pros: >>>> -Descriptive >>>> -Announce all progress states >>>> -Works in all cases >>>> >>>> Cons: >>>> -More code to add >>>> -Buffer announcements (will keep announcing progress after complete) >>>> -Behavior different then standard progress indicators >>>> >>>> I prefer option one because of adding less code for our workaround and it >>>> works in most cases. Later on when NVDA fixes their issues with >>>> aria-valuetext then this will be a small code fix. I am attaching all the >>>> test cases I have tried. Any suggestion is welcome. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Golam >>> >>> --- >>> Colin Clark >>> Technical Lead, Fluid Project >>> http://fluidproject.org >>> >>> <FLUID-3671-cases_v.2.xls>_______________________________________________________ >>> fluid-work mailing list - [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe, change settings or access archives, >>> see http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work >> >> _______________________________________________________ >> fluid-work mailing list - [email protected] >> To unsubscribe, change settings or access archives, >> see http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work > > _______________________________________________________ > fluid-work mailing list - [email protected] > To unsubscribe, change settings or access archives, > see http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work --- Colin Clark Technical Lead, Fluid Project http://fluidproject.org _______________________________________________________ fluid-work mailing list - [email protected] To unsubscribe, change settings or access archives, see http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
