First things first: I suggest we find a place to host collaborative materials and discussion. It's probably more important to have somewhere soon than to have somewhat perfect (we can fix that later)
Suggestions: * google hangouts * google groups * github * cemetech.net (might seem like an odd target community, but there are many creative minds there, exploring all kinds of topics) One thing I'd like is a list of goals, motivations, and means or mechanisms, and from there we can see where our ideas & materials overlap or differ, and perhaps refine how to approach these things better. Also of value may be what else we can do to promote new ideas and ways of thinking (& doing) in the larger community (industry, education, organizations). I've been trying to promote a subset of ideas at work, but it's hard for most developers to think outside of their mechanical (rather than humanistic) view of software. I'm having some luck appealing to the User Experience (UX) team though, so we'll see where that goes. In response to some questions I've had: Yes, github.com/d-cook/Objects is mine :) I agree about promoting the user model above (or instead of) a textual one. My bootstrap approach is a means to create an underlying execution model that could change itself and later be subsumed by a UI. I was going to forego parsing and a REPL and just "brute force" a UI that will allow further development to be done visually; but since I'm starting with code, I'm having a hard time feeling like those things wouldn't make my life easier just to GET to that point. On the other hand, I've found an applicable reason for such a tool at work, for which I'm STARTING with the UI, and may drill down into the underlying code from there. (It's drag & drop composition of software, like Bret Victor's "Drawing Dynamic Visualizations", but with functions & data instead of graphical shapes). I expect both models to "meet" at some point in the middle. I fully agree with the need to implement a system at the lowest level possible, but I've started in JavaScript because it will give me a fast POC, and because I believe that the code within such a system MUST be homoiconic, like Lisp. (JavaScript is not, but it gives me ad-hoc lists and objects for free). Plus, I can just pop open any browser and BOOM. But yes, ultimately I want a system to run on the metal. There is more I could say, but let's find a better place to collaborate first On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:24 PM Dan Cook <dcook0...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Over the last 4 years, I too have stumbled upon "the untold story of oop", > VPRI, and a number of other "untold" histories of software and efforts to > make it more open-ended & human-oriented. I can tell you that FONC is not > the only attempt at such a thing. > > If I'm not the only one, maybe we can benefit from sharing what we've > found (or collaborate on projects or ideas or resources), rather than just > limiting to the COLA stuff. > > I myself have taken from many sources (like the ones listed below) to > develop my own user-oriented software innovation > > Is anyone interested? > > Examples: > Intentional Domain Workbench, > Meta Programming System, > Lively Kernel, > https://youtu.be/1O8PwkXfDJg > , > (and the following are all on worrydream.com) > The Humane Representation of Thought, > Drawing Dynamic Visualizations, > Learnable Programming > > Thanks, > - Dan > > On Sat, Jul 29, 2017, 4:20 PM Eugene Wallingford <walli...@cs.uni.edu> > wrote: > >> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 02:39:08PM -0700, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: >> > There will be some more news in the near future, but I can tell you >> > that many of us moved to a Lab called Communications Design Group and >> > then to HARC at Y Combinator Research. Yes, the focus had shifted >> > that these points. >> >> The web home is: http://harc.ycr.org The set of researchers >> is impressive and interesting. I'm familiar with the GP >> project, and several others are worth of a deeper looker. >> I'm especially interested in the tutoring system. >> >> ---- Eugene >> >> > On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 12:47 PM, <joel.jakubo...@cantab.net> wrote: >> > > You leave the rather intriguing comment that >> > > >> > >> VPRIs focus and efforts have shifted and we will no longer host or >> > >> support this list. >> > > >> > > What have the focus and efforts of VPRI shifted to? Is this related >> to the >> > > completion of the STEPS project or is that old news? >> > > >> > > I only found out about FoNC, VPRI, heck even the untold story of OOP, >> less >> > > than a year ago, and the stuff you're all working on is incredible. >> It's >> > > pretty criminal how little-known it is, but I joined because I >> believe in >> > > what you're doing and want to see what's going on. >> > > >> > > It's a shame that there's not been much activity in 2016 and 17 - but >> from >> > > my limited expeditions into the depths of the archives, there seems >> to be >> > > a real wealth of useful info that isn't present anywhere else. So huge >> > > thanks to Kenny Friedman for setting up the new list and archive >> mirror; >> > > it'd be a bit sad to join a group just as it's about to disband! :) >> > > >> > > -Joel >> > > >> > > >> > > On Tue, July 25, 2017 00:16, Kim Rose wrote: >> > >> Dear ?fonc? community, >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> This is to notify you that this mailing list (?fonc?) will be >> retired and >> > >> made inactive at the end of this month. >> > >> >> > >> VPRIs focus and efforts have shifted and we will no longer host or >> > >> support this list. >> > >> >> > >> Thanks for your past interest, support and participation. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Kim Rose >> > >> Viewpoints Research Institute >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Fonc mailing list >> > > Fonc@mailman.vpri.org >> > > http://mailman.vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc_mailman.vpri.org >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > -- Yoshiki >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Fonc mailing list >> > Fonc@mailman.vpri.org >> > http://mailman.vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc_mailman.vpri.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fonc mailing list >> Fonc@mailman.vpri.org >> http://mailman.vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc_mailman.vpri.org >> >
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