You seem to be ignoring the search, recognition, and refinement aspects. You need some way to tell the computer what is interesting so you can refine those portions (reducing variation, tweaking constraints or parameters or other code, selecting `preferred` samples on a grid as a human fitness function for genetic algorithms, etc.) while continuing to search on the other aspects. Think of this as a collaborative effort between computer and human, where you're reducing the burden of hand-crafting the world but not taking yourself out of the picture entirely.
The wonderful, interesting vistas created by POV-Ray are not created by randomly seeding a world, but are also not created by hand-crafting the maps. Why should you expect different for creating deep, inspired 3D worlds? Regards, Dave On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:31 PM, BGB <[email protected]> wrote: > the "problem domain" is potentially best suited to some sort of maze > algorithm, but in my own tests, this fairly quickly stopped being all that > interesting. the "upper end" I think for this sort of thing was likely the > .Hack series games (which had a lot of apparently randomly generated > dungeons). > > it is sad that I can't seem to pull off maps even half as interesting as > those (generally created by hand) in commercial games from well over a > decade ago. I can have a 3D engine which is technically much more advanced > (or, at least, runs considerably slower on much faster hardware with > moderately more features), but apart from reusing maps made by other people > for other games, I can't make it even a small amount nearly as > "interesting" or "inspiring". > > > On Jan 16, 2012, at 8:45 AM, David Barbour <[email protected]> wrote: > > Consider offloading some of your creativity burden onto your computer. > The idea is: > > It's easier to recognize and refine something interesting than to > create it. > > So turn it into a search, recognition, and refinement problem, and > automate creation. There are various techniques, which certainly can be > combined: > > * constraint programming > * generative grammar programming > * genetic programming > * seeded fractals > > You might be surprised about how much of a world can be easily written > with code rather than mapping. A map can be simplified by marking regions > up with code and using libraries of procedures. Code can sometimes be > simplified by having it read a simple map or image. > > Remember, the basic role of programming is to automate that which bores > you. > > Regards, > > Dave > > > On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 4:18 PM, BGB <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I am generally personally stuck on the issue of how to make "interesting" >> 3D worlds for a game-style project while lacking in both personal >> creativity and either artistic skill or a team of artists to do it >> (creating decent-looking 3D worlds generally requires a fair amount of >> effort, and is in-fact I suspect somewhat bigger than the effort required >> to make a "passable" 3D model of an object in a 3D modeling app, since at >> least generally the model is smaller and well-defined). >> >> it seems some that creativity (or what little of it exists) is stifled by >> it requiring a large amount of effort (all at once) for the activity needed >> to express said creativity (vs things which are either easy to do all at >> once, or can be easily decomposed into lots of incremental activities >> spread over a large period of time). >> >> trying to build a non-trivial scene (something which would be "passable" >> in a modern 3D game) at the level of dragging around and >> placing/resizing/... cubes and/or messing with individual polygon-faces in >> a mapper-tool is sort of a motivation killer (one can wish for some sort of >> "higher level" way to express the scene). >> >> meanwhile, writing code, despite (in the grand scale) requiring far more >> time and effort, seems to be a lot more enjoyable (but, one can't really >> build a world in code, as this is more the mapper-tool's domain). >> > > _______________________________________________ > fonc mailing list > [email protected] > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > > > _______________________________________________ > fonc mailing [email protected]http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > > > _______________________________________________ > fonc mailing list > [email protected] > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > >
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