I wouldn't say problems that have plagued Fedora.  These are
more of possible improvements and we'd like to see whether Conary
groups (etc.) bring these benefits; this is an experiment not a
promise.  It's worked for RHEL and CentOS for the past few years
so why not Fedora?  But I disagree with coming in and telling
people who have built a successful and widely adopted distro
that they are plagued with problems.  And that's not just
because I helped start Fedora...  They have a lot of success
under their belt, collectively speaking.  The question is
whether we can help even more.

I want to be clear that I, personally, simply cannot commit to
implementing any of these rpmbuild integration pieces.  Right now,
it's just an interesting (as I see it) idea, if someone wants to
try building something.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 05:54:52PM +0100, Martin Bähr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> the following is what i think is good enough to submit as a talk proposal.
> if you have any suggestions please don't hesitate to comment. 
> the submission deadline is 24 hours from the time of this email.
> 
> session name:
> "repackaging fedora with conary" (anyone have a better title?)
> 
> abstract:
> In this talk we will share the current work of the foresight linux project to
> rebase the foresight distribution on top of fedora.
> 
> Foresight is a distribution with rolling releases using the conary packaging 
> toolchain.
> In fl:1 and fl:2 we built the distribution on top of rpath, who also 
> developed conary.
> For fl:3, the next major incarnation of foresight we are rebasing on top of 
> fedora.
> 
> To do this, we are importing all of f20 into a conary repository and we are
> then building our own distribution on top of this collection.
> 
> This enables us to effectively use fedora with our own packaging toolchain.
> 
> Then, having done this, we have the opportunity to explore whether in doing so
> we have solved problems that have plagued Fedora.  For example, while many
> people upgrade Fedora regularly without problems, there are also many horror
> stories of fedup breaking people's systems.  Many of the kinds of breakage 
> that
> show up are things that Conary could address.  Among those are more complete
> deps and dep-complete update jobs often avoiding the "broken screensaver"
> problem, and groups allowing a more precise migration that avoids leaving
> straggling bits that create untested situations that break. We have not been
> the one experiencing these problems, so we can't say for sure.  We just know
> that we've been able to maintain a rolling distro across major updates for
> years (though we quit updating gnome when gnome3 showed up...) and so it's
> worth trying.  It might be that if people trusted Fedora updates more, they
> would update more, which would be good for Fedora.  It's a distraction when
> people complain about the short maintenance lifetime.  Can we make that 
> better?
> 
> Then Foresight becomes a rolling remix, not only useful on its own, but an
> opportunity and context in which to demonstrate whether or not Conary can make
> the Fedora base bits roll forward with fewer update failures.
> 
> We've already found packaging bugs in the release just from trying to import
> into Conary.  We expect to find more.  That has typically happened during
> Conary imports of RPM distributions.  If we import the beta releases of 
> Fedora,
> we can find bugs before they hit users, and the kinds of bugs Conary finds are
> usually the ones that are easy to fix, "low hanging fruit" that can really
> contribute to fit and finish.
> 
> There was some interest last year in whether the conary build process could
> make it easier to build RPMs, but there was really not enough interest to get
> enough people involved to make it happen. If interest rises this topic could 
> be
> revisited.
> 
> (i rewrote the first part and then copied the rest with slight modifications.
>  thanks mkj for pretty much writing this for me!)
> 
> outline:
> The talk will cover the following points:
> 
> * Short introduction to foresight and conary
> * What are we doing with fedora?
> * Why is this interesting for the fedora community?
> 
> * Enabling Fedora users to consume Fedora using a rolling model.
> 
> * Demonstrating a new way to build a Fedora remix, one that takes
>   advantage of the rolling model and helps the remixes stay current.
> 
> * Contributing to upstream quality by catching certain classes of
>   bugs prior to release.
> 
> * Using Conary's extensive package build automation to make it easier
>   to build better packages for Fedora.
> 
> 
> greetings, martin.
> 
> -- 
> eKita                   -   the online platform for your entire academic life
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> chief engineer                                                       eKita.co
> pike programmer      pike.lysator.liu.se    caudium.net     societyserver.org
> BLUG secretary                                                 beijinglug.org
> foresight developer  foresightlinux.org                            realss.com
> unix sysadmin
> Martin Bähr          working in china        http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
> 
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