The ability to speak Portuguese is really not a requirement to participate in a serious discussion about many problems concerning the Portuguese Wikipedia. There are millions of people who speak Portuguese, but are total or functional analphabets. I would not consider that they meet the requirements needed to engage in such a discussion. On the other hand, there are many people who might not speak Portuguese, but are the most knowledgeable about the Portuguese language. Ain't that a shame? Now, go figure.
I agree with the statement that "decisions like this should be made by people who know the language variants and their differences". People of average intelligence should be able to make an informed decision, if those variants and differences are clearly stated and explained to them. They will then be in the know, too. The concept of "outsiders" is more difficult to grasp. If "outsiders" means people who don't "know the language variants and their differences", I'm afraid that will exclude a very large percentage of the most active editors of the Portuguese Wikipedia and a lot of them will not be capable of making an informed decision any time soon. Leaving the decision to the speakers of Portuguese is perhaps a statement inspired in self rule and democracy, but those concepts are hardly understood, much less applied, in the conditions most speakers of Portuguese live in this very day. As for the practices in the Portuguese Wikipedia I'll already address that topic on another occasion. One might consider, on the other hand, that the generalization of such policy would make irrelevant all international organizations. The Wikimedia Foundation happens to be an international organization, by its very nature and basic principles. The fact that there have been posts made to this list, about the subject, by an international group, also goes to show that the problem and the solution concerns more people than strictly those who speak Portuguese. That would be a complete and total disaster, for reasons already explained. If one truly believes in self rule and democracy, the assertion that "it seems that the majority of speakers does not want to split." is a real mystery. If those questions got to be decided by majorities, we all would probably end up with a single Wikipedia... in Chinese. Please, spare me of the fixation on to split or not to split. That might not be the question. Again and again I see people avoiding the issue of clearly identifying the problems, looking for appropriate solutions, and proposing and supporting informed decisions. The notion that "Outsiders can assist by giving advice." brings to mind so many examples of "foreign advisers" that I shudder at the thought. After a childish epithet, all that was needed was a paternalistic one. Writing from a country with almost nine hundred years and being part of a nation much older and greater, I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to spare my humbler and less literate countrymen and women from that embarrassing position. Let me assure you that we take pride in honoring our hospitality traditions and love to talk with our equals and people without pretenses, mostly if they happen to be false. There is merit in proclaiming that the problems that arise from differences should be minimized, although it's kind of difficult to decide on "how" until it is clearly and completely known "what". As for decisions imposed by outsiders on the community, that again all depends on how outsiders and community are defined, but no matter which way you look at it, that's exactly what's been going on. Sincerely, Virgilio A. P. Machado At 20:24 22-03-2010, you wrote: >Thomas Dalton hett schreven: > On 22 March 2010 >19:01, Virgilio A. P. Machado <[email protected]> >wrote: > >> Perhaps the reason the issue keeps >popping up is >> that, although it has been >extensively >> «discussed», it has not been >properly addressed, much less solved. >> > > >I think the reason it has never been addressed >is that nobody outside > the Portuguese >community can see a problem. It all seems to be >a lot > of fuss about nothing. That means the >wider Wikimedia community will > never accept a >two-wiki solution and the most obvious >one-wiki > solution is the one used by the >English Wikipedia, namely: stop > complaining >and just write encyclopaedia articles. We're not >going to > indulge a community engaged in a >childish argument about nothing. > I hope you >speak Portuguese. Cause decisions like this >should be made by people who know the language >variants and their differences and not by >outsiders. Leave the decision to the speakers of >Portuguese. Anyway it seems that the majority of >speakers does not want to split. Outsiders can >assist by giving advice. E.g. how to minimize >the problems that arise from the differences. >But outsiders shouldn't impose decisions on the >community. Marcus Buck User:Slomox >_______________________________________________ >foundation-l mailing list >[email protected] Unsubscribe: >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Prof. Virgilio A. P. Machado [email protected] Engenharia Industrial http://web.archive.org/web/20070824105539/www.ipei.pt/GDEI/ DEMI/FCT/UNL Fax: 351-21-294-8546 or 21-294-8531 Universidade de Portugal or 351-21-295-4461 2829-516 Caparica Tel.: 351-21-294-8542 or 21-294-8567 PORTUGAL or 351-21-294-8300 or 21 294-8500 Ext.112-32 96-577-3726 Faculdade de Ciencias e Tecnologia/UNL (FCT/UNL) (Dr. Machado is Associate Professor of Industrial Engineering at the School of Sciences and Engineering/UNL of the University of Portugal) _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
