John, Firstly, thanks for the time that you have devoted to the Fox board, and also for the support you've given me personally in the past. It's people like you who have made Linux a viable option in embedded systems.
I've looked at other embedded Linux platforms. One of the key requirements is that the platform is well supported. Linux on the Etrax processor meets that requirement. I'm not aware of any others that are at the same standard. Ricardo, Any hardware/software platform needs to be thoroughly researched and tested beforehand to make sure that it meets the requirements. This is just normal engineering practise. As John said, "i am not a magician and 100 mips is only 100 mips." There are always caveats on such small platforms. Etrax/Fox Linux is under heavy, continual development. The software does work, but will obviously be limited by the hardware platform. If there are bugs in it, they will likely be fixed. If there are performance enhancements possible, they will likely be made. The software you got was free, and the source code is all there. If it doesn't meet your requirements, the license allows you to modify and improve it. As the license says, it make no guarantees as to fitness of purpose. Support is readily available. If the generous free support provided by Axis and Acme isn't suitable, you could consider paid support. I know Axis provides paid support for this hardware platform, I'm not sure what the Acme position is. Not even Microsoft will give you this good a deal. If you think embedded Linux is hard, give embedded Microsoft a try. Dan Nelson Transcom Communications Systems On Fri, 2007-06-15 at 02:34 +0200, John Crispin wrote: > * i have taken a long time to think about what to say and how to say > it so please everyone read it fully. If anyone would like to comment > on the matter you are invited to do so, from the bottom of my heart * > > dear ricardo, > > i am john crispin, the maintainer of the sdk toolchain. When i > started > using the foxboard, when they were first released, the sdk came > straight from Axis in sweden (the producer of the chip). it was > missing a lot of drivers (like wifi) and packages (like wireless > tools), that i added to the sdk using what was previously know as the > "phrozen patch" and is now known as the FoxSDK. Being an OpenSource > developer, i did this fully in my spare time, contributing to the > community of nice people, just for the fun and because i have the > knowledge to do so. All the code in the sdk is under the GPLv1/v2 > license with the clauses probably known to you (but we will come back > to this later in the mail). > > *** hence this statement is purely personal and not an official > Acmesystems statement. They will contact you directly very soon *** > > Let me respond now to the interesting mail that you send to the list > > > Being deeply involved in Marco's and Cristian's work (I am their > > supervisor), I regret to say that the whole matter is being treated > in a > > completely wrong way. The problem is not wether kernel 2.4 is more > or > > less stable than 2.6 as far as wireless is concerned: the point is > that, > > on Acme's website, the Foxboard is advertised as WORKING with wi-fi, > and > > specifically with that particular USB stick (the DWL G122). > > We therefore bought the device FROM THEM trusting the ad, and later > > discovering that > > You are correct, that on the acme site it is stated that the stick is > supported. Form my point of view as a developer it does work. There > are known issues that the 2.6.15 support of the usb host driver > provided by the cpu manufacturer has problems under heavy load. I did > respond very quickly to the bug report issued by your students, > however i regret to haver sent only a short mail. The reason for this > is that the issue has been reported lots and lots and lots on this > list and it has also been announced just as often that a fix is being > worked on. As i said i do the developement of the SDK in my free time > and under GPL, so some times it takes a bit longer to have a fix > fully > working and tested. I do however agree with you that the information > on the website is not complete, it states that the wifi stick works, > however with the limitations i explained above. > > >>>>> yes this is a known problem > > > > and that > > > >>>>> unfortunatley the issue will not be resolved until we > >>>>> have 2.6.19 > > > > As i said i am working on a fix, there will be a lot of new software > using a new release, which is a complete rework of the code base, > adding more new features than most would dream of. With the upcoming > release i will prove once again that the community means alot to me > personally, otherwise i would not invest hundreds of "free" hours > into > the support. I am in constant contact with a lot of users, reachable > via skype, icq and even telphone, giving free support where i can, > but > i am not a magician and 100 mips is only 100 mips. making usb stable > on 2.4 was hard work and so will the part of making it stable on 2.6. > However as i said it does take its time. > > > At this point, I think there are only two possibilities: either, as > the > > Italian law states, the problem is fully solved (by Acme, not by us) > > within a REASONABLE amount of time, or they will have to provide a > full > > refund for all expenses we incurred, given that their product is not > > conforming to advertised specifications. And this means that we need > a > > VERY FAST response from Acme. > I am from germany, so i have no idea of the italian law. But what do > you understand as a very fast response and reasonable amount of > time ? > i spoke to Mr. Asquini - Co-Founder of Acmesystems SRL. today to > discuss your e-mail, he will contact you directly on friday 15.june. > as i stated before, in my opinion the producer is "conforming to > advertised specifications" just that there are known issues when > using > webcam+wifi > > > I am sorry for being somewhat rude, but we are all wasting precious > > research time on a trivial problem that someone else claimed did not > > exist. > dont worry, i am sure you took as much time as me to think about the > words said. And rest assured you REALLY said them clear enough. > > now for the really shoking part > > > doesn't add much, so to speak, to Acme's reputation. > I have meet the guys from acme on several occasions and i have only > rarely meet such nice supportive people. I have worked with linux > hardware for many years now and the foxboard is by far the most fun i > ever had with any embedded device. It has been taken from the whole > linux community with a lot of anticipation and joy. I have seen lots > and lots of great project using the fox, from industry automation, > train controls, roborts, toy helicopters, routers, print servers, ... > (i have not enough time to give you a full list, but believe me it is > long). Up to know you are the first person i have come across that is > so unhappy with his fox in the 2 years that i have been using it. > especially as the problem is well documented in the mailing list (and > yes i know it should be noted on the website, which was added just 2 > minutes ago). So basically your statement implying Acme has a bad > reputation is shrudely false. I grant you your own opinion however, i > just believe it is totally none representative from an academic point > of view. > > Finally i would like to point out to you the following. The device > you > are trying to use runs linux. By using the software you implictly > accept the GPL which clearly states the following text > > --- quote --- > This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, > but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of > MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the > GNU General Public License for more details. > --- quote --- > > thanks, > John > > > > >
