The ban list for #fpc can be accessed by typing /mode #fpc b
I hereby relinquish all claims to said list donate it to whomever wishes to
recruit new members for their own channel.
On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 17:36, <fpc-other-requ...@lists.freepascal.org> wrote:
> Send fpc-other mailing list submissions to
> fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> fpc-other-requ...@lists.freepascal.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> fpc-other-ow...@lists.freepascal.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of fpc-other digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: #fpc irc channel (geneb)
> 2. #fpc irc channel (HSN)
> 3. Re: #fpc irc channel (Steve Litt)
> 4. Re: #fpc irc channel (Steve Litt)
> 5. Re: #fpc irc channel (Steve Litt)
> 6. Why #fpc matters (HSN)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 06:15:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: geneb <ge...@deltasoft.com>
> To: HSN via fpc-other <fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org>
> Subject: Re: [fpc-other] #fpc irc channel
> Message-ID:
> <alpine.lrh.2.21.2304200607380.14...@sidewinder.deltasoft.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2023, HSN via fpc-other wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone
>> I have helped nikolay moderate the #fpc channels for years since it had
>> become unusable due to trolls back on freenode .
>>
>> First I want to clarify regarding the #fpc channel rules
>> 1. Lurkers - pascal programmers can lurk all they like. Strangers with
>> unknown intentions cannot.
> Why not? If they're just lurking, they're not impacting anyone.
>
>> 8.Introduction: please tell me who are and how you found channel when you
>> join. It makes my life a lot easier. I don?t want to accidentally ban you
>> because of some misunderstanding.
> This is literally none of your business. You banned me as "rude" when I
> said as much.
>
>> 9. Culture: Friendly and helpful. Rude People who engage in harassment will
>> be shown the door.
>>
> ...or don't kowtow to the demands of the empress.
>
> Check out the Unofficial Free Pascal Discord server here:
> https://discord.me/unofficialfreepascal
>
> (Much Pascal, no interrogation.)
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:03:45 +0000
> From: HSN <hs...@protonmail.com>
> To: "fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org" <fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org>
> Subject: [fpc-other] #fpc irc channel
> Message-ID:
> <LqZ7YOM00Akd7q1Z6fLTFDelKZoryskfGtnD6abpFhDy-JhVgoNQUXTsZPJ7yWIR8eceGMwzSRmDq1nvLT4dCh5CvjQV2Y46KUyceENrRCA=@protonmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I bet there could be people in these mailing lists that don?t even use
> pascal. It?s is understandable why someone who doesn?t use pascal could be
> offended about being asked to talk about what they are doing in pascal...
> People I know who like pascal don?t seem to have These hang ups.
>
> If nobody knows the backstory about freenode, it was taken over and destroyed
> on purpose to get people off of irc and onto platforms that spy on users and
> monetize their data. Irc is one of the few platforms left on the Internet
> where there is no phone number or email required to talk.
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.freepascal.org/pipermail/fpc-other/attachments/20230420/6ed2a9cf/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 19:23:17 -0400
> From: Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com>
> To: fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org
> Subject: Re: [fpc-other] #fpc irc channel
> Message-ID: <20230420192317.7d74e...@mydesk.domain.cxm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> geneb via fpc-other said on Thu, 20 Apr 2023 06:15:14 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Hi geneb,
>
> Please pass this on to HSN, whom I assume is Joanna...
>
>>On Wed, 19 Apr 2023, HSN via fpc-other wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone
>>> I have helped nikolay moderate the #fpc channels for years since it
>>> had become unusable due to trolls back on freenode .
>
> Trolls don't lurk, so why the antipathy for lurkers Joanna?
>
>>>
>>> First I want to clarify regarding the #fpc channel rules
>>> 1. Lurkers - pascal programmers can lurk all they like. Strangers
>>> with unknown intentions cannot.
>>Why not? If they're just lurking, they're not impacting anyone.
>
> Also, I made tens of thousands of dollars with both Whitesmith Pascal
> and Turbo Pascal last century, but this century I just do Pascal every
> few months. So am I a Pascal programmer? If there's a Pascal aptitude
> test to qualify for #fpc, please point me to it so I can cram and pass
> the test.
>
>>
>>> 8.Introduction: please tell me who are and how you found channel
>>> when you join. It makes my life a lot easier. I don?t want to
>>> accidentally ban you because of some misunderstanding.
>>This is literally none of your business. You banned me as "rude" when
>>I said as much.
>
> Furthermore, if not answering your questions is a bannable offense, you
> should say so in the /topic. Not in a web page pointed to /topic, but
> in the /topic text itself. As a matter of fact, that topic should list
> all the bannable and kickable offenses, so we know you're not making up
> rules as you go or engaging in selective enforcement.
>
> Also, as I remember (I can no longer access #fpc), there were many,
> many channel operators. Why should I pay attention to *one particular*
> chanop who interrogates me? If there's a bannable rule that I must
> answer a chanops questions, this should have been stated in /topic.
>
> One more thing Joanna. Your reputation precedes you. I felt less likely
> to run afoul of the channel rules if I didn't respond to you, and more
> likely to run afoul of the channel rules if I engaged with you. But
> that's a moot point, because I was away from my desk, so I *couldn't*
> have responded to either your public or private questioning.
>
>>
>>> 9. Culture: Friendly and helpful. Rude People who engage in
>>> harassment will be shown the door.
>>...or don't kowtow to the demands of the empress.
>
> I was not unfriendly. I harassed nobody. I already said why I didn't
> engage with you.
>
> As far as friendly and helpful, how friendly were you, Joanna, by
> saying publicly that you couldn't coinhabit a channel with somebody who
> had written what I did on a *mailing list*? Joanna, you should unban
> everyone you've banned in the past 2 years, and then permanently step
> down from your chanop status. Your chanop activities are hurting the FPC
> project and the Pascal language itself by making it difficult to
> comfortably access IRC help for FPC. I'm "lurking" on the #C channel
> right now, nobody's interrogating or hassling me, and to tell the
> truth, C isn't that bad except you need to free all your allocations,
> take steps not to overrun any buffers, and initialize all your
> variables and pointers. Valgrind is a great help in this. Your chanop
> actions make the FPC alternatives start to look pretty good.
>
> It could be said that my words in this post aren't friendly or helpful.
> Friendly, no. My words are a little harsh, which I think is
> called for by the situation, because they're the truth. Your
> words on #IRC and here are probably less friendly than mine. Helpful? If
> you unban everyone, step down as a chanop, and just enjoy the language
> you love, it will help everyone.
>
>>
>>Check out the Unofficial Free Pascal Discord server here:
>>https://discord.me/unofficialfreepascal
>>
>>(Much Pascal, no interrogation.)
>>
>>g.
>
> geneb, years ago I made a policy decision not to work with discord,
> but I'm now re-thinking that policy, in light of the fact that I can't
> currently get help on the IRC channel assumed by most to be the
> official FPC channel. I'd like everyone to know that there's now
> #fpc-alt for ontopic and ##fpc-alt for offtopic.
>
> writeln('Give everyone a break and step down, Joanna.');
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 19:42:53 -0400
> From: Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com>
> To: fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org
> Subject: Re: [fpc-other] #fpc irc channel
> Message-ID: <20230420194253.50419...@mydesk.domain.cxm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> HSN via fpc-other said on Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:03:45 +0000
>
>>I bet there could be people in these mailing lists that don?t even use
>>pascal. It?s is understandable why someone who doesn?t use pascal
>>could be offended about being asked to talk about what they are doing
>>in pascal... People I know who like pascal don?t seem to have These
>>hang ups.
>
> Maybe people lurk because they want to *learn* FPC. Or maybe their
> Pascal skills are so low they need to ask questions and cannot prove
> their Pascal expertness.
>
>>
>>If nobody knows the backstory about freenode, it was taken over and
>>destroyed on purpose to get people off of irc and onto platforms that
>>spy on users and monetize their data. Irc is one of the few platforms
>>left on the Internet where there is no phone number or email required
>>to talk.
>
> Which is EXACTLY why I use IRC. Your actions (assuming HSN=='Joanna')
> push people away from IRC (and Pascal) just as much as trolls,
> insulters, political junkies and biggots do. So why don't you unban us
> all, and if **on #fpc** any of us starts insulting people or groups of
> people, or insulting FPC or Pascal, or going on and on about their
> wonderful vacation to the South of France or their ski trip in
> Colorado, you can warn them and if they persist kick or even ban them.
> But not for not answering your questions, or for not posting. Name me
> one other IRC channel that does that. Joanna, you have the power to end
> this whole mess right now just by revoking all the bans and using more
> reasonable moderation techniques in the future.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:35:22 -0400
> From: Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com>
> To: fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org
> Subject: Re: [fpc-other] #fpc irc channel
> Message-ID: <20230420203522.4ba43...@mydesk.domain.cxm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> HSN via fpc-other said on Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:03:51 +0000
>
>>Hi everyone
>>I have helped nikolay moderate the #fpc channels for years since it
>>had become unusable due to trolls back on freenode .
>>
>>First I want to clarify regarding the #fpc channel rules
>>1. Lurkers - pascal programmers can lurk all they like. Strangers with
>>unknown intentions cannot.
>
> By definition, lurkers are not damaging, regardless of their intentions.
>
> 2. Purpose - the channel is for people who
>>use and want to talk about creating projects with fpc and Lazarus
>>Delphi programmers are also welcome
>
> That's reasonable.
>
> 3.Pascal: people in channel are
>>expected to have at least beginner level proficiency in pascal
>>language so that they can understand what is happening and
>>participate. People who don?t know pascal can visit #pascal and
>>utilize the resources in topic.
>
> Here we have to define beginner level proficiency. Somebody in their
> second week of a Pascal class? Somebody who is pretty good with
> procedural Pascal but iffy about Pascal OOP and all these millions of
> new flags and types?
>
> Also, there are only 17 people on #pascal, which makes getting
> questions answered in a reasonable time much less probable.
>
> 4. Bots: bots are allowed only with
>>permission from channel owners. This includes chatbots.
>
> Completely understandable, but somebody should be assumed carbon based
> until proven bot. And heck, if the bot is ontopic and helpful, what's
> the difference?
>
> 5.offtopic
>>chat:When no technical discussions are happening, sensible pleasant
>>off topic chat is both allowed and enjoyed.
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> 6.Sincerity: channel
>>members are expected to demonstrate sincerity and post questions that
>>channel members were unable answer in forums or mailing lists if asked
>>to.
>
> Thanks for letting us know. I often wait 2 days and then repost if no
> answer. I'll try to remember not to do that if I'm ever allowed back on
> #fpc.
>
> 7.Joining:the #fpc requires users to be logged into account to
>>enter,
>
> Do you mean logged into libera.chat? If so, of course.
>
>> however I can add your IP address to the invite list so that
>>you can join without an account if you prefer.
>
> 8.Introduction: please
>>tell me who are and how you found channel when you join. It makes my
>>life a lot easier.
>
> Unfortunately, I found the channel via the thread on the moderation of
> #fpc. I love IRC, and if this mess ever gets fixed I'd love to post
> short, simple FPC questions on IRC, saving the more complicated ones
> for email. On most IRC channels, I also help people when I know answers
> or next steps.
>
>>I don?t want to accidentally ban you because of
>>some misunderstanding.
>
>> 9. Culture: Friendly and helpful. Rude People
>>who engage in harassment will be shown the door.
>
> Here we have to define rude. On the mailing list I admin, we don't
> allow personal insults, insults to groups of people, insults to Linux
> (after all, it's a Linux group mailing list), and long and frequent
> occurrences of posts obviously intended to start arguments. So far,
> since 2004, I've banned three people, issued less than 10 warnings, and
> once I threw the whole list under moderation to stop a rapidly
> escalating flame war.
>
> I think as a moderator you also have a responsibility to behave in a
> way that doesn't make people feel like they're walking on eggshells and
> worry that a question or an answer might get them reprimanded or banned.
>
>>
>>I cordially invite all pascal programmers who are able to abide by
>>these rules to join us
>
> That's me, and in my opinion all the people in this thread who have
> been banned from #fpc. Why don't you unban us all and we can all start
> over?
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 06:33:26 +0000
> From: HSN <hs...@protonmail.com>
> To: "fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org" <fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org>
> Subject: [fpc-other] Why #fpc matters
> Message-ID:
> <7WahyRPjJDLoOhccNN2zq2TZjYXB-KTi69yilg7adv-s7WxBMHTcyoIKmHGZgXsXx5H_HepxRgb_Ap7ZizqmEU2YP6psk7F2NYx2vALMFiA=@protonmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello everyone this is Joanna
>
> I discovered fpc and Lazarus around 2014. Before that I was involved with
> online gaming and programming bots.
>
> I have been creating projects with fpc using Lazarus ide for a long time.
> Pascal is the only language I use so I have no other languages to fall back
> upon if the fpc project were to disappear.
>
> I can?t emphasize enough how grateful I am that fpc and Lazarus were created.
> I think that there are far too many people who take the work that the
> developers do for granted and never think about all the long hours of their
> spare time that they have donated to the project.
>
> I want the developers to live happy stress free lives so that they can
> continue writing good code. I wish that there was a way for me to protect the
> developers from grief and wasted time caused by orchestrated drama from
> malicious people with bad intentions.
>
> Fpc should be enthusiastically promoted on all possible platforms and places
> to enable more people to discover and use it.
>
> IRC is a good place to promote fpc because irc is a protocol which allows
> people to choose their own clients as well as not requiring email or cell
> phone. People can and have created their own irc clients using fpc!! Where
> else can you do that?
>
> I know it isn?t always easy but I want to do what is best for the #fpc
> community, even if it takes some extra effort on my part. The #fpc channel
> and people in it represent the fpc project. Every word sent to the channel
> reflects not only upon our community, but upon me as well.
>
> We need more people who can help improve the channel. I staunchly believe
> that only people who are willing to both learn pascal and do projects with it
> are qualified to represent this amazing compiler written in pascal.
>
> I firmly believe that the discourse in the channel should be controlled by
> humans who belong there. The Internet has hundreds of thousands of places to
> chat about all sorts of things. The number of places where we can chat about
> using pascal without being ridiculed are few and far between.
>
> We have a right to talk about fpc/pascal related things and socialize without
> being interrupted,bothered, surveilled or harrassed by non pascal users who
> have a lot more choices of places to go than we do.
>
> Once again I cordially invite all pascal programmers who can abide by the
> channel rules to join us.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.freepascal.org/pipermail/fpc-other/attachments/20230421/85cacab1/attachment.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org
> https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of fpc-other Digest, Vol 150, Issue 6
> *****************************************_______________________________________________
fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org
https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
