Yeah ... I have to admit that I can't argue with you on this too much. :) 
Because, there isn't a simple "this is the right way" to do the EOP insertions.

Although ... maybe ... Word stands a slightly better chance because of its 
"Normal" paragraph that could get applied by default. Of course, as you note, 
this could cause a mess with documents whose paragraphs have already been 
changed to some other paragraph format, etc.


From: Fred Ridder []
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 10:18 AM
To: Syed Zaeem Hosain (;;
Subject: RE: FM12: Quirks in Find/replace using RegEx (Perl)

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be *useful* to be able to 
insert a new EOP. But the reality is that in either Word or FrameMaker (and I 
assume in other word processing applications) it is problematic because EOP is 
not a simple character. Regular expressions are designed to work with arbitrary 
strings of simple characters. They were never intended to handle characters 
that have formatting or page layout properties embedded in them. If a regular 
expression *were* able to insert a new EOP, what formatting should apply to it? 
Since regular expressions don't know about formatting, the only practical 
answer is the lowest level default formatting. But in any properly designed 
word processor document (i.e., one that uses styles) that default is going to 
be *wrong* in >99% of cases and require further, manual attention from the 
author, which really defeats the benefit of being able to use a regular 
expression replacement. A simple text editor is a completely different 
situation because there really is nothing special about an EOP.

I think the real point is that in Klaus' case the analysis of the task was 
slightly flawed. To fix his punctuation issue, what he really wants to do is 
insert a period (full stop) between the current unpunctuated text and the 
existing EOP, which is exactly what his second regular expression does. There 
really is no reason to delete the existing EOP (and all the "magic" embedded in 
it) and replace it with a brand-new, untagged EOP that would require his manual 
attention to tag and/or format. FrameMaker's behavior of not allowing this 
saves the user from having to do a lot of after-the-fact cleanup.

FrameMaker's regular expressions let you find EOPs without issue, and lets you 
reuse them. What they don't let you do is try to create a new one where there 
is insufficient information in the found text string(s) to do that operation 
without making a mess.

Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 09:10:33 -0700
Subject: RE: FM12: Quirks in Find/replace using RegEx (Perl)
Hi, Fred.

Hmmm ... I understand your point, but am not sure I would entirely agree with 
the reasoning.

Yes, FrameMaker (and other programs like Word) do put in additional information 
besides the EOP glyph itself.

But, this is a relatively commonly used/desired function - certainly in simple 
text editors - to replace an EOP with other characters (perhaps including an 
EOP). For example, to "join" multiple lines together, or to do what Klaus 

Yes, FM is not just a simple text editor, which is why I see your reasoning to 
not call it a bug.

But I think it would be good to define exactly what regular expression matching 
is supposed to do with EOP markers then (or have a special mechanism to 
identify and use an EOP more effectively perhaps?)


 [] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: FM12: Quirks in Find/replace using RegEx (Perl)

No, I don't think it is a bug.
And end-of-paragraph mark is not a simple glyph; it has properties and 
attributes associated with it (e.g. a paragraph tag, the formatting associated 
with that paragraph tag, and any overrides to the standard formatting for the 
You can find an EOP as if it were a simple glyph because they do have a common 
fundamental property (i.e. denoting the end of a paragraph).
But you cannot effectively insert a new EOP in a replace string because there 
is no way to associate any of the other properties with the new mark.
Finding an EOP and replacing it with itself, on the other hand, is a valid 
operation because the found mark has a full complement of paragraph properties.

-Fred Ridder
> From:<>
> To:<>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 15:48:17 +0200
> Subject: FM12: Quirks in Find/replace using RegEx (Perl)
> Friends of FramMaker, please judge.
> I want to find incorrectly ended paragraphs (missing punctuation).
> For example the following 4 lines are paragraphs, the first 2 correct,
> the next two incorrect:
> This is the first paragraph!
> And this is the second one.
> And here a third
> And a fourth one:
> RegEx Find/Replace with these settings:
> Find: ([^\.!?])\n
> Repl: $1.\n
> Result: find is correct, replacement is n instead of paragraph end
> With repl = $1.\r replacement is a forced newline; correct, but not wanted.
> Find: ([^\.!?])(\n)
> Repl: $1.$2
> This creates a correct replacement!
> IMHO the behaviour of not honoring \n as an 'end of paragraph' for the 
> replacement is
> a bug. Do You agree?
> Klaus Daube

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