Thanks, Jeremy. One thing, though: the Ctrl-Alt-` and Ctrl-Alt-' methods
of creating curly double quotes appear to work just fine for me, with or
without Smart Quotes turned off.



Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:41:24 -0700
From: "Jeremy H. Griffith" <>
Subject: Re: Odd keyboard behavior
To: <framers at>
Cc: "Dosick, Daniel \(GE EntSol, Security\)" <Dan.Dosick at>
Message-ID: <7nbdf494a904s9ekvcgljd7c9cm9ic9v6p at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:27:05 -0400, "Dosick, Daniel (GE EntSol,
<Dan.Dosick at> wrote:

>FM8 (patch 277), WinXP pro
>This one's pretty bizarre: 
>As of a couple of days ago (I think), when I type a single or double 
>quotation mark (' or ") in Frame 8, a question mark appears rather than

>the quotation mark character.
>Changing the font has no effect. All the other keys do just what 
>they're supposed to do.
>This is only happening in FM8, not in FM7.1 or in any other application

>I've tried.
>Any ideas?

It's a Frame 8 bug; the "Smart Quotes" feature is broken.
As you know, Frame began using Unicode internally in FM8.
Pre-Unicode versions, like FM7, used the character set in Windows Code
Page 1252, ANSI, instead,  The two character sets are basically
identical for most code points, *except* for characters from U+0080
through U+009F.  In Unicode, those code points are the "C1 control
characters" and do not display.  In ANSI, they are a collection of
symbols that include the curly quotes among others.

In FM7, using "Smart Quotes" and typing " resulted in either character
0x93 (left) or 0x94 (right), depending on context.  In Unicode, those
code points are not displayable, but Frame didn't convert them to the
right Unicode characters, U+201C and U+201D, as it did for most other
characters in that zone.  Instead, it leaves the old ANSI in place, and
displays a question mark.

Interestingly, if you use Mif2Go to convert that file to either HTML or
Word RTF, the characters are correct in the output.  How come?  For
HTML, browsers still support the ANSI values, which Mif2Go passes
through, even though they are not valid Unicode.  For RTF, Word still
uses the ANSI set itself; in fact, Mif2Go has to convert the other
Unicode chars back to ANSI to make Word happy.  But that doesn't help if
you make a PDF; you still get the question marks.

What you need to do is, first, turn off Smart Quotes; in Format >
Document > Text Options... uncheck the box at the top left and Apply.
In FM8, it's dead; bury it.

Now, if you type a ", you get a ", the straight one.
If you want the curly one, type Ctrl-q Shift-R for the left one, or
Ctrl-q Shift-S for the right.  There are other ways, but that's the
fastest and simplest method.  The pre-8 method of Ctrl-Alt-` and
does *not* work; it gives you single quotes in FM8.

For single quotes, it's simpler.  Type a `, and get a left curly single
quote; type a ', and get a right.
Ctrl-q Shift-T and Ctrl-q Shift-U also work, if you are using a
non-English keyboard.  If you want the actual straight character
versions, you have to use Ctrl-` and Ctrl-'.  That's the same as in FM7.

Other characters in the 80-9F range are handled more gracefully.  If you
use the Ctrl-q sequences, you get the real Unicode character, mostly in
the U+2000 area.
Ctrl-q is your new best friend.  ;-)


-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  <jeremy at>


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