I will say among the many things that annoy about Adobe, the one that really, really annoys me is that it purports itself to be a technical communication company, yet after around FM 6.0, the absolutely FANTASTIC User guides that they produced to support the use of their products just when down the tubes . . .zip, zilch, nada for how many years now? I still have my very dog-eared, tattered Frame bibles that were sent w/ FM 5.5.6, 6.0 and 7.0 and they are my life-savers to this day when I need to remember how to do something that I haven't done in a long time. Nowadays, you're left to hunting and pecking out on the web, hoping like H*LL that someone in a forum has had the same problem asked and answered, or that in Adobe's lame excuse for Online documentation for any product, that you find a hint of what you need.
I was stuck using RH2019 WAY before it was ready for prime time a few years ago and if it weren't for Matt Sullivan's class, and the support of Peter Grainger, and Surbhi Maheshwari directly from Adobe, I would have just slit my wrists and it shouldn't have had to be like that at all. Adobe's online "documentation" was so lame - grossly incomplete, flat out wrong in places, missing critical information. How on earth did they expect anyone to be able to use a brand new product w/out any decent user documentation - by osmosis or serendipitously? And yes, I agree - Adobe has D*MNED good products that meet the needs of projects unlike any other product, but w/out competent and timely support - either the human kind or the user guide kind - it doesn't matter. If you can't use the product the correct way and to its fullest extent, what's the point? Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Framers <framers- > [email protected]> On > Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 4:19 PM > To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > Amen!!! > > TVB > > Tammy Van Boening > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > www.spectrumwritingllc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Framers <framers- > > [email protected]> On > > Behalf Of Craig, Alison GLI/CA > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 11:15 AM > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > IMO, Adobe treats us as open wallets from which to extract more and > > more money - but they deal only reluctantly with our support issues > > (you have to be *very* persistent) and (almost) never fix the actual > > problem. (How many of you have searched the web for an "Adobe > > solution" and come across a bunch of forums with reams of the same > > complaint as yours, and the complaints date back 5, 7, 12 or more > > years?) > > > > I've also had the "unhelpful and/or hours-on-hold support" issue with > > other products (Creative Suite, anyone?) and don't get me started on > > the dog poo they call "Adobe Digital Editions", which they refuse to > > fix and also refuse to support. Yes, I know ADE is free, but do it right or > don't do it at all. > > > > Alison > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Framers <framers- > > [email protected]> On > > Behalf Of Caroline Tabach > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:47 PM > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > Well, I had Frame 7 for ages and ages, and used to see all the stories > > on forums, so never moved till we got Windows 10 and then went > > straight to frame 2015, so did not encounter these issues. > > > > Now I am in a place which is not using Frame > > > > Caroline Tabach > > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021, 23:17 , <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yea, pretty much. . . I figured after the installation fiascos that > > > started with the first attempt at the Technical Communication Suite > > > (TCS, > > > 2009 - remember that!), Adobe had to catch on fast about this issue, > > > but apparently that has not been the case. . . it was horrible then > > > and has stayed just as horrible now. . . at the time, I remember > > > that I referred to TCS as "Totally Cr*ppy Software.) > > > > > > I was an early adopter, and learned fast NOT to be in the case of Adobe. . > > > . that hosed my system so badly that I had to basically take it down > > > to bare metal and set everything up from scratch again and I was not > > > the only one who suffered such a fate. . . > > > > > > Tammy Van Boening > > > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com__;!!Oq50 > > > -tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > > UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEap0 > > > GTOUFa$ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Framers <framers- > > > > [email protected]> On > > > > Behalf Of Peter Gold > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 1:34 PM > > > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us > > > > Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > > > > > Egad, Tammy! Are you saying, "At least it hasn't gotten worse?" :) > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 2:23 PM <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I just remember a conversation that I had with Dov many years > > > > > ago when I was still attending conferences and even back then, I > > > > > was lamenting about all that Adobe could do so wrong when it > > > > > came to installing/reinstalling/uninstalling and Dov's comment > > > > > to me was that a gentleman at the sister conference had > > > > > commented to Dov "When in the H*LL is Adobe going to stop > screwing up my systems!!!" > > > > > > > > > > Even after 20+ years of this, nothing has apparently changed and > > > > > that is sad. > > > > > > > > > > TVB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tammy Van Boening > > > > > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com__;!! > > > > > Oq50-tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > > UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2 > > > > > ORHqEap0GTOUFa$ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Framers <framers- > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of A Craig > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:06 PM > > > > > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software. > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us > > > > > > Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wholeheartedly agree — except, sadly, I'm not semi-retired. > > > > > > > > > > > > Alison > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software." > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 12 October, 2021 15:55:26 > > > > > > Subject: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us > > > > > > Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > > > > > > > > > Because every single solitary time that I have to > > > > > > uninstall/reinstall an > > > > > Adobe > > > > > > app., I hold my breath to see what kind of friggin' rabbit > > > > > > hole Adobe > > > > > takes me > > > > > > down and yep, it pulled a doozy on me this week, and thanks to > > > > > > Adobe, I > > > > > lost > > > > > > a good 2 hours' worth of work to get my system back up to 'snuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can give details if interested, but I just wanted to chime > > > > > > in to the > > > > > thread > > > > > > from a few weeks ago, where someone stated that they feel that > > > > > > Adobe hates their customers. . . well, yea, I understand that > > > > > > feeling. I LOVE > > > > > Adobe > > > > > > products. . . I HATE installing/uninstalling them and I hate > > > > > > that Adobe apparently does absolutely NO regression/system > > > > > > testing on their stuff when it comes to this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Count me in as another very dissatisfied and p*ssed off Adobe > > > > > > customer who is grateful to be semi-retired and not having to > > > > > > deal w/ this cr*p > > > > > for > > > > > > much longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tammy Van Boening > > > > > > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com__; > > > > > > !!Oq50-tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > > UBlYEMRSBcfh > > > > > > P1w2ORHqEap0GTOUFa$ _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://home.mcafee.com/utm_medium=e > > mai > > > > l&utm_source=link&utm_c__;!!Oq50- > > tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoai > > > > TMJ-jXcUS-UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEapzdyWVt6$ > > > > > > ampaign=sig-e > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail&utm_content=emailclient?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm > > > > > > _campaign=s > > > > > > ig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Scanned by McAfee > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://home.mcafee.com/utm_medium=e > > mai > > > > l&utm_source=link&utm_c__;!!Oq50- > > tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoai > > > > TMJ-jXcUS-UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEapzdyWVt6$ > > > > > > ampaign=sig-e > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail&utm_content=emailclient?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm > > > > > > _campaign=s > > > > > > ig-email&utm_content=emailclient> and confirmed virus-free. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] Visit the list's > > > > > > homepage > > > > > at > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.frameusers.com__;!!Oq50-t > > > > > > Q!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > > UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHq > > > > > > Eap2fQskXy$ Archives located at > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.mail-__;!!Oq50- > > tQ!4YeNP0F > > > > > > WmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > > UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEap3-OwP4 > > > > > > 0$ archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.frameusers.com/listin > > > > > > fo > > > > > > .cgi/framers-frameusers.com__;!!Oq50- > > tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9 > > > > > > rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS-UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEapwXulJMm$ > > > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] Visit the list's > > > > > > homepage > > > > > at > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.frameusers.com__;!!Oq50-t > > > > > > Q!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > > UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHq > > > > > > Eap2fQskXy$ Archives located at > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.mail-__;!!Oq50- > > tQ!4YeNP0F > > > > > > WmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > > UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEap3-OwP4 > > > > > > 0$ archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > > > > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.frameusers.com/listin > > > > > > fo > > > > > > .cgi/framers-frameusers.com__;!!Oq50- > > tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9 > > > > > > rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS-UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEapwXulJMm$ > > > > > > Send administrative questions to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > > > > > > > Send messages to [email protected] Visit the list's > > > > > homepage at > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.frameusers.com__;!!Oq50- > > tQ! 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