On the other hand (since the original post contained a Brakhage reference), if someone was lauding Brakhage's films on sex and sexuality (not his most interesting work, in my opinion) and someone else referred to him as "some dead heterosexual guy" (which he is -- and he's certainly been called worse), and told that first person to "get a girlfriend and get a life," I don't think I would particularly care. It would not be the most astute and articulate film criticism; but the point would be made, that the critiquing person felt that the work was being overrated, and for questionable reasons. Okay. Someone else might respond with a consideration of the possible value of the work, or of some other work by that filmmaker. (Or not.) ...Regardless, though, perhaps the main point in the present case is that a public listserv was not really the best place for Bruce's flippant remark to a friend. But seriously, people: have none of you ever made an ill-informed, inappropriate, insensitive, or out-of-place remark? Ever? And if you ever did, should you have been banished for it? ... I have to say, BTW, that the one and only time I met Barbara Hammer, she made what I thought was a very ignorant and inappropriate remark -- about not normally expecting "a wife" to have anything interesting to say. I did not, however, think she should be banished for it.
I do understand that you are defending a marginalized community. But I've always been of the opinion that, at some point, the best way not to be marginalized is simply to act as if you are not. (And everybody is entitled to their opinion, however correct or incorrect it may be.) Why not respond to Bruce Cooper with an argument as to why you think he is wrong about the significance of Hammer's work? Then his dismissive remark would be effectively countered. (Or, on the other hand, ignore it as not worth responding to. Or, just call him out for being disrespectful, and then move on.) Marilyn Brakhage From: "Sarah Kolberg" <[email protected]> To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 9:16:13 PM Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Barbara Hammer & Women I Love I concur with Anna, Mariah, and Dinorah (and whomever else agrees that I may have missed). If it is the case that Bruce and Eric are indeed friends, such that Eric wouldn’t be offended by that comment or the get a life get a girlfriend comment, then he should have simply emailed that snark directly to Eric. As Anna notes, there’s enough homophobic bs on the internet without it being here too – ESPECIALLY about a pioneering lesbian filmmaker who helped pave the way for other queer artists and queer films to be ‘out of the closet’ (so to speak) ~ sarah From: Frameworks <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 4:45 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Barbara Hammer & Women I Love not to mention that on an Experimental Film Discussion List he used this horrific & offensive phrase to refer to none other than Barbara Hammer. I mean... enjoy today... Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez Filmmaker, Artist, Writer [ https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsolislandmediaworks.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cskolberg%40buffalo.edu%7C4ba482aeb05b45f6459508da92a4574c%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637983532919274094%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zFYzDwjmCst7BeYRT0ikWS5xPAQ6qcZfvJVXbKBYHtM%3D&reserved=0 | solislandmediaworks.com ] On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:26 PM mariah garnett < [ mailto:[email protected] | [email protected] ] > wrote: As some future dead lesbian I support Anna’s proposal. BQ_BEGIN On Sep 9, 2022, at 1:03 PM, Anna Briggs < [ mailto:[email protected] | [email protected] ] > wrote: BQ_BEGIN Hello all, I also hadn't seen this exchange over the summer. I think (and hope most people in this community would agree) that moderating the comments of someone using expressions such as 'some dead lesbian' is insufficient, and that such a person should be permanently removed as a member of this list. There are unfortunately plenty of other places on the internet where people can go and spew homophobic bilge. Thank you, Anna Briggs [ https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mipops.org%2Faboutus%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cskolberg%40buffalo.edu%7C4ba482aeb05b45f6459508da92a4574c%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637983532919274094%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=v2iQOwL%2BHI1HP9UjAAYncSqrEAPB%2BUnbLCHtF0UaeYk%3D&reserved=0 | https://www.mipops.org/aboutus/ ] On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 20:43, Ж < [ mailto:[email protected] | [email protected] ] > wrote: BQ_BEGIN Hi all! Just contextualizing: Best! Ж // [ https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkkinema.com.br%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cskolberg%40buffalo.edu%7C4ba482aeb05b45f6459508da92a4574c%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637983532919274094%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=V%2F85FM1F6VQeOSIkkl4EFynvoUfmQOAv8g6WOfTAjPs%3D&reserved=0 | kkinema.com.br ] // [ https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftextodecinema.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cskolberg%40buffalo.edu%7C4ba482aeb05b45f6459508da92a4574c%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637983532919274094%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6%2Fmrvdh1D8rQqnkA7X5u0ygM2NEMXss4Qp%2Bby82h1us%3D&reserved=0 | textodecinema.com ] // Em sex., 9 de set. de 2022 às 13:18, Bruce Cooper < [ mailto:[email protected] | [email protected] ] > escreveu: BQ_BEGIN Excuse me, a personal attack on Eric Theise? Eric is a friend of mine from SF a long time back in the 1990s. I would appreciate it if people who don't know me (or met me once or twice 20 years ago) would refrain from commenting.about me. You have no idea who or what you are talking about. -B.C BQ_BEGIN BQ_END -- Frameworks mailing list [ mailto:[email protected] | [email protected] ] [ https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.film-gallery.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fframeworks_film-gallery.org&data=05%7C01%7Cskolberg%40buffalo.edu%7C4ba482aeb05b45f6459508da92a4574c%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637983532919274094%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wAsbGjPW2AegMUqq0YXnhoUnPk3RZ4K%2FdhKeOnkdUIk%3D&reserved=0 | https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org ] BQ_END -- Frameworks mailing list [ mailto:[email protected] | [email protected] ] [ https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.film-gallery.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fframeworks_film-gallery.org&data=05%7C01%7Cskolberg%40buffalo.edu%7C4ba482aeb05b45f6459508da92a4574c%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637983532919430325%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eFH3jtvvOzPVTRwk6AGQA9CkwVdtzkQCVRzMZlT3IKw%3D&reserved=0 | https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org ] BQ_END -- Frameworks mailing list [ mailto:[email protected] | [email protected] ] [ https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.film-gallery.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fframeworks_film-gallery.org&data=05%7C01%7Cskolberg%40buffalo.edu%7C4ba482aeb05b45f6459508da92a4574c%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637983532919430325%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eFH3jtvvOzPVTRwk6AGQA9CkwVdtzkQCVRzMZlT3IKw%3D&reserved=0 | https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org ] BQ_END -- Frameworks mailing list [ mailto:[email protected] | [email protected] ] [ https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.film-gallery.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fframeworks_film-gallery.org&data=05%7C01%7Cskolberg%40buffalo.edu%7C4ba482aeb05b45f6459508da92a4574c%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637983532919430325%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eFH3jtvvOzPVTRwk6AGQA9CkwVdtzkQCVRzMZlT3IKw%3D&reserved=0 | https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org ] BQ_END -- Frameworks mailing list [email protected] https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
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