On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 01:37:18PM +1100, Noah O'Donoghue wrote:
> I hear the walled garden argument a lot and it's definitely true in a
> financial sense with apps - people won't move away from iOS because they
> have spent $X on iTunes apps.
> 
> As far as in a school environment there is an important distinction around
> who purchased the apps - If it was the school, and the kids only have
> access to it until they leave, then there's not much lock in from a
> financial standpoint. (For example, shared iPads that stay in a trolley at
> school)
> 
> Personal devices yeah there is lock in because they load up a lot of apps
> at home..
> 
> However, I'm not really convinced that the alternatives are any less
> lock-in, because the android apps you purchase only work on android
> devices.. So what's the difference? If you move away to another platform
> (eg windows tablet, iOS, Firefox OS?) you still have to spend money on
> apps.. Also, google do a lot of lock-in to Google Play, because they
> monetize the information they collect in your google account, thus
> requiring it for a lot of services on the phone which I would argue is
> something that apple don't do as much. You can choose not to use your
> iTunes account for anything other than app download if you want to. You
> don't have to use it for maps / email / contact sync / calendar sync etc..
> They use open standards for syncing such as CalDAV and CardDAV which
> require no contact with apple whatsoever..
> 
I'm was thinking more along lines of being about to bypass app
stores or official software channels and run on your device whatever
software you wish.  My understanding is that it's difficult on iOS.

Platform differences imply that executables acquired from an Android
app store aren't going to work on iOS (and vice-versa), so being
able to take your apps between platforms wasn't really what I was
getting at.  (Nevertheless, sticking to free software would at least
make that possible.)

> What information are you asking with regard to idm and PKI? Do you want to
> know about MDM (mobile device management) or something else?
> 
You mentioned certificate authentication for wireless networks.  I
would be interested to know about certificate profiles and
provisioning/enrolment processes for mobile devices.  (I am not sure
whether this fall under MDM or not).

Cheers,

Fraser

> 
> On 18 December 2014 at 12:56, Fraser Tweedale <fr...@frase.id.au> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 12:13:39PM +1100, Noah O'Donoghue wrote:
> > > As someone actually responsible for deploying iPads in primary schools I
> > > feel like I should comment.
> > >
> > > I'm going to present a couple of arguments for iPads, without disagreeing
> > > with the closed ecosystem being bad. I believe an open free device is a
> > > much better choice than a semi-closed ecosystem where one must pass all
> > > software through apple without the choice of adding alternative software
> > > repositories ala Android. Totally agree.
> > >
> > > I really want to deploy Android tablets, but for a couple of reasons they
> > > are just not ready.
> > >
> > > From my perspective, school is about teaching kids skills they will use
> > in
> > > real life, and getting as much useable technology in the hands of
> > children
> > > as I can. I don't want to deploy something for purely political reasons,
> > I
> > > want to deploy something because it is the best tool for the job.
> > >
> > Thanks for your comments, Noah.  Interesting to hear an inside
> > view.  It is disappointing that Apple holds advantage over
> > competitors particularly in the deployment/administration aspects
> > you outlined.
> >
> > (Side note: I work in IdM and PKI and would be interested to know
> > more about your requirements and experiences with iOS and Android.
> > Do you have any resources?)
> >
> > Of concern to me is the restriction in learning opportunities caused
> > by a homogeneous environment of proprietary devices, or (to take a
> > more cynical view) that students may become dependent on
> > Apple-flavoured technology, fearing to leave the walled garden (or
> > not even realising they are in one!)  It is claimed that our kids
> > are more tech-savvy than previous generations - so let's ensure that
> > they learn and become masters over this technology, not subjugated
> > by it.
> >
> > The freedom of our children is at stake, so as a society we need to
> > be less "pragmatic" and more principled in our decisions about
> > technology in schools.  Technical hurdles must be overcome (and can
> > be).
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Fraser
> >
> > > >   families to procure) must be based on specific requirements for
> > > >   learning activities.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I've been on conferences where teachers talk for days about all the apps
> > > they are using in their classroom and the ways they are using them for
> > > educational outcomes. There are just so many apps available. Here's a
> > link
> > > to multiple pages of specific examples. Pick any 10, and see if you can
> > > find equivalents on android. The situation is getting better (more apps
> > on
> > > android than before). But it's not there yet in the educational arena.
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.ipadsforeducation.vic.edu.au/userfiles/files/ipads_for_learning_getting_started.pdf
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > - "Easy use by students of all abilities including those with
> > > >   special needs".  Citation needed (and one that provides comparison
> > > >   with other tablets/OSes).
> > > >
> > >
> > > The accessibility features of iOS are quite extensive. I couldn't begin
> > to
> > > iterate through the features, but one that comes to mind is single app
> > > mode, which is great for locking a specific app to view, and can be
> > > switched on and off instantly from a server. Also, they have many many
> > > things to help people with motor difficulties, blindness, hearing
> > > difficultly, colour difficulties etc. I could go on but it's well
> > > documented by sources below:
> > >
> > > https://www.apple.com/au/accessibility/ios/
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.ipadsforeducation.vic.edu.au/userfiles/files/DEECD%20iPad%20support%20booklet%20for%20special%20education.pdf
> > >
> > >
> > > > - "Light and easy to carry; long battery life."  Are not other
> > > > >   tablets?  I do not use a tablet computer but surely competitors
> > > > >   are comparable.
> > > >
> > > > Actually Android wins handily when you start looking at such things.
> > If
> > > > you
> > > > want a device that's smaller, larger, lighter, cheaper, or has a longer
> > > > battery life then there's an Android device that wins.  Apple makes a
> > very
> > > > small range of devices.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Citation needed. Show me a small, light, android tablet with decent
> > battery
> > > life including standby power. Apple make a small range of devices, but
> > they
> > > are premium devices and usually the smallest / lightest / fastest in
> > their
> > > category at time of release. Plenty of comparisons on the web. I can tell
> > > you that I had a stack of iPad Airs sitting around in sleep mode for 3
> > > months due to an unfortunate hold up with software deployment (If I'm
> > being
> > > balanced, I blame apple for this!).. At the end of the 3 months, these
> > > iPads that were fresh out of the box still had a charge. I also have just
> > > sold an iPad 2, which I used every day for hours and charged roughly 3
> > > times a week, and now have an iPad Air 2, same usage but with 4G and
> > still
> > > the same battery life (10-15 hours a charge).
> > >
> > > Meanwhile I've personally owned a PIPO android tablet I got from Hong
> > Kong,
> > > and a Ainol tablet, both would drain in less than a week with no usage.
> > To
> > > be fair they were cheap tablets, but I also have an Acer tablet at one of
> > > the schools based on an NVIDIA tegra chipset, with the same problem.
> > >
> > > If you find a solid example make sure you compare it to the price of
> > > Apple's iPad offering in schools, which is about $480.
> > >
> > > Wireless network support. Another big one. It's really hard to get
> > android
> > > devices to work with certificate based authentication on wireless
> > networks.
> > > I know, I've tried. Usually they at least require a passcode (not good
> > for
> > > shared devices) and are quite flaky in the implementation.
> > >
> > > Software deployment / Device remediation: Another big one. From a
> > > sysadmin's perspective:
> > >
> > > I need to be able to push all configuration over USB, through a USB hub,
> > > with 30 tablets connected at once.
> > >
> > > I need to be able to push software from a central source, update it
> > > wirelessly, and respond quickly to teacher's requests for new software.
> > > Apple let me do all these things without touching the device. The
> > software
> > > will just update in the background.
> > >
> > > If the alternative devices don't do this, then you need to budget support
> > > hours in with the cost of the device, because each school will have a
> > fixed
> > > amount of support available to them in the form of tech time.
> > >
> > > At the end of the day, I like both OSes (android and iOS), and I would
> > > happily support either given the resources, but schools don't have
> > > unlimited resources so you have to pick the best tool for the job...
> > >
> > > On 25 November 2014 at 23:17, Russell Coker <russ...@coker.com.au>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 25 Nov 2014, Fraser Tweedale <fr...@frase.id.au> wrote:
> > > > > > My sons' school is next on the bandwagon it seems, more information
> > > > > > here:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.craigburn.sa.edu.au/files/BYOD%20iPads/innovative_learning_prg
> > > > > > ram_craigburn.pdf
> > > >
> > > > The "Managing and operating ICT" line seems to go against using the
> > most
> > > > locked down device on the market that can't be managed by the user.
> > > >
> > > > http://etbe.coker.com.au/2013/02/11/phone-tablet-sizes/
> > > >
> > > > Some time ago I researched the various ways of holding a phone or
> > tablet
> > > > and
> > > > what sizes might be best for different ages.  Note that I assume that
> > the
> > > > ratio of finger length to height in my body is the same as that for all
> > > > ages,
> > > > while that assumption is probably inaccurate it should do as a rough
> > > > approximation.
> > > >
> > > > For use of mobile devices there are various times and uses that suit
> > > > different
> > > > ways of using them (EG 2 hand use works well in a classroom but not on
> > a
> > > > bus).
> > > > Therefore to cater to all ages a wide range of sizes should be
> > available.
> > > > The
> > > > range of Android phones and tablets covers everything from 4" to 12"
> > screen
> > > > size with no gaps of more than about 0.5".  Apple just doesn't have the
> > > > same
> > > > range.
> > > >
> > > > Apple devices are significantly more expensive.  Has the new lock
> > > > technology
> > > > to prevent theft been added to all the iPads?  If not then it seems
> > like a
> > > > bad
> > > > idea to have young kids carrying around expensive items that can be
> > > > re-sold.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.friendshipcircle.org/blog/2012/09/04/14-special-needs-android-apps-
> > > > on-google-play/
> > > >
> > > > The claim that the iPad is good for "special needs" kids, but the above
> > > > URL is
> > > > one of many with links to Android apps - presumably things have got
> > even
> > > > better over the last 2 years.  Perhaps it would be good to find out
> > what
> > > > "special needs" they are referring to and compare the devices on that
> > > > basis.
> > > >
> > > > > - "Light and easy to carry; long battery life."  Are not other
> > > > >   tablets?  I do not use a tablet computer but surely competitors
> > > > >   are comparable.
> > > >
> > > > Actually Android wins handily when you start looking at such things.
> > If
> > > > you
> > > > want a device that's smaller, larger, lighter, cheaper, or has a longer
> > > > battery life then there's an Android device that wins.  Apple makes a
> > very
> > > > small range of devices.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > My Main Blog         http://etbe.coker.com.au/
> > > > My Documents Blog    http://doc.coker.com.au/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Free-software-melb mailing list
> > > > Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Free Software Melbourne home page:
> > http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Free-software-melb mailing list
> > > Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
> > >
> > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
> > >
> > >
> > > Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Free-software-melb mailing list
> > Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
> >
> > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
> >
> >
> > Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Free-software-melb mailing list
> Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
> http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
> 
> 
> Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
_______________________________________________
Free-software-melb mailing list
Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb


Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/

Reply via email to