Hi To preserve all old DOS software (freeware, shareware, demo, for non-commercial use, open source, etc) I recommend creating individual accounts on archive.org and uploading it there. The Internet Archive is a non-profit public library in the US that can store copies of books and archives according to the US copyright law (108). I think it is important to not let the DOS software disappear from the earth. If someone has DOS BBS backups with several files that are no longer available on the web, it may be a good option to upload them there.
About the "Freeware for non-commercial use". It goes against the OSI definition, even if the author shares the source code, when he puts that on the license it breaks the OSI definition "#6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor". Check https://opensource.org/osd My opinion is that we should not risk the FreeDOS project with software that is not formally open source software. We may describe the software, create articles about it, share our own screenshots, and link that DOS software (if it is legally available on the web), but not host non open source files on a FreeDOS project server. I cross my fingers that the author of Diskman will accept to open source it. Regards On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 5:48 PM Thomas Desi <t...@mttw.at> wrote: > Liam, > WordTsar looks indeed „funny“ on my iMac. Thx for pointing it out. > > Regarding Raskin’s Editor: There are builds for Windows, Mac and Linux: > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20080224100142/http://rchi.raskincenter.org/index.php?title=Download > > A recent Tribute to his ZOOM World is nice to try out here: > > http://www.raskinformac.com/#features > > … so it hasn’t fallen completely into oblivion. One finds the story all > over the net when searching > for example: Enso, Ubiquity, Archy, THE SWYFT CARD > > His son apparently tried for a while to push forward on this, but it all > stopped at some point. > I think this is because it works nice for single users, small data sets > with text and so on, but not in larger contexts, especially multiplex and > graphics content. > > - Thomas > > > > Am 07.05.2021 um 23:11 schrieb Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com>: > > > > On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 18:29, Thomas Desi <t...@mttw.at> wrote: > >> > >> Maybe those legacy editors are still around in discussion because of > their „paradigmas“ they created > >> around editing text on a computer. > > > > Well, yes. > > > >> Editor „Brief“ refers maybe besides other features to „incremental“ > Home / End Keys (e.g. first HOME press moves caret to Start-Of-Line, a > second press moves the caret a line up, till Start-of-File) or more in > general to key commands which became models for period of time for many > editors. > > > > Aha! Interesting. I have not heard of that before. > > > >> Hard to say one is better then the other. We only became „locked into“ > a system in the last 50 years. > > > > Very true. > > > > But there is real value in having a near-universal system. IBM CUA > > came in at the end of the DOS era, but has persisted in some forms... > > Windows, all the mainstream xNix desktops, OS/2, and even Mac OS X hew > > to it to some degree. OS X more than Classic MacOS. > > > > It's partly why I do not use Vim or Emacs. I learned editors in the > > early 1980s, when every one was totally different and many computers > > had multiple different editors. I was au fait with dozens and switched > > easily. > > > > CUA came as a huge relief; after it, one model and one UI worked > everywhere. > > > > I don't care _how_ much editing power Vim or Emacs may have; they do > > not conform to the dominant UI of the last 35+ years, and as such, I > > am not interested in learning yet another UI. I will use the one that > > works in Notepad, Gedit, Leafpad, Mousepad, Kate, Geany, Text Edit, > > EDIT.EXE, EDITOR.EXE, etc. etc. > > > >> So each and every text editor (especially those) provokes a > quasi-religious attitude of the user > >> towards the computer and its behaviour. > > > > Exactly so, yes. > > > >> Adding pull-down menues or calling the menue by pressing F10 or F1 for > Help… Most of these conventions are gone because of the ubiquity of the > mouse or touchpad. > > > > True. > > > >> Printing, which has been such a killer issue, has become IMHO much less > important lately, as most text feed into the web (blogs) or Emails. PDF as > the main currency. Word’s doc format unfortunately is asked nearly in every > domain as the common denominator. Be green - use your screen! > > > > True. > > > >> Designing a *complete* system for editing text must include the actual > keyboard layout, dedicated keys, the pointing device, the editor software > (yeah), and the… operating system. All need to finally feed into the > „ergonomic“ aspect (key-chording in legacy Emacs can in bad cases lead to > injury of the hands), free the unnecessary mental load (editing prose in > vi/vim having in mind which mode one is in, is mindf**k). The two paradigma > Emacs/Vi(m) are rather similar in contrast to the ACME and SAM editors, > using the three button mouse. > > > > Agreed. > > > >> And just to mention it, there once was Jef Raskin's „Canon Cat“. His > paradigma of „all is text“ (like Rob Pike’s ACME?) but denying the use of > the mouse in favour of a copyrighted „Leap“ key, which basically is Emacs’ > search-command. Gaining seconds but asking the user to retype typos in > order to move the caret to that spot. It is amazing how these geniuses were > somewhat wrong in predicting the future despite the objective superiority > of their concepts. Raskin’s work (Swyft card, THE, ARCHY) dove into > oblivion. > > > > Ha! As I read your message, I thought of the Cat. > > > > I wish someone would do a clone of its UI using normal PC keyboards > > and (say) Emacs as its base. It was an inspired design. > >> > >> Rob Pike in 1991 wrote an article ( > http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/1st_edition/help/help.pdf ) which is still > worth reading. Let me quote: "Where will we be ten years from now? CRT’s > will be a thing of the past, multimedia will no longer be a buzzword, > pen-based and voice input will be everywhere, and university students will > still be editing with emacs. Pens and touchscreens are too low-bandwidth > for real interaction; voice will probably also turn out to be inadequate. > (Anyway, who would want to work in an environment surrounded by people > talking to their computers?) Mice are sure to be with us a while longer, so > we should learn how to use them well.“ > >> > >> Did he say „ten years“? 1991 is now thirty years ago… > > > > :-/ > > > >> He didn’t speak about tablets/smartphones - but have you tried working > with text editing on a touch-screen? Orrrgh. > > > > Oh my yes. > > > >> Today one can easily realize one’s own design of a keyboard, or have > extra special macro keyboards, or pointing devices like roller mouse, > trackpad, magic mouse etc. > >> Still the software lacks enormously, especially for text editing in > prose. Sound’s pretensiously silly, I know. > >> But, Keyboard Commands seem for many people old fashioned and awkward > in Text editing, navigating, working with the system. It’s all absurdly > bloated, even the computer system is enormous. > > > > I agree again. We are going backwards nowadays. > > > >> Looking back at those thoughts, designs and ideas of thirty+ years ago, > using DOS, trying out maybe Plan9 (hmm…?) is worthwhile to get an idea that > there is more to computing than windows, linux or MacOS, more than MS-Word. > This can only achieved if the software enters a status of „oldtimer“, like > with cars in Europe, where after a while the whole issue of individual > rights might of design ideas become „open source“ out of public interest. > This might be very Un-American, right, I am writing from an European > perspective. > > > > I don't know if you know, but Plan 9 and Acme, Rio etc. were inspired > > by an earlier OS, called Oberon. It is still around, runs on modern PC > > hardware, is FOSS, and is astonishingly small and fast. > > > > http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/04/22/oberon/ > > > > -- > > Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com > > Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven > > UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Freedos-user mailing list > > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > -- Martín Itúrbide http://www.os2world.com mar...@os2world.com martiniturb...@gmail.com Quito - Ecuador
_______________________________________________ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
