Maybe the better approach is to look closely at the Clausius statement of the 2nd law, and see what breadth of application has been ordinarily accepted as consistent with it. It refers to an 'isolated system'. No isolated systems actually exist but the principle is readily applied to physical systems that are both nearly isolated, and various, particularly thermal, equilibriums that are entirely unisolated. I think the reason 'isolated system' is in the statement of the principle is that it makes it easier to prove, not because concentrations left alone in whatever kind of system will only be certain to disperse if they are completely isolated. Isn't that correct? Is there anything about the isolation of a system either necessary for or by absence would invalidate the principle, or is it only that a lack of isolation would invalidate the proof? Isn't this a case where physics uses 'real categories (identifiable which are not strictly definable except by the procedure of identification, like 'apple') in applying a principle stated in terms of abstract ideals? -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Holmes Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:24 AM To: the Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] bigger plans, bigger little mistakes
Phil, I don't think that your reliance on the second law is correct. The Clausius statement of the 2nd law is: The entropy of an isolated system not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium. The earth isn't an isolated system: the sun inputs energy. So I don't think you can use the 2nd law. Robert On 4/29/07, Phil Henshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Or somewhat equivalently, getting us to pay carbon taxes on what we consume... To do that we'd need some way guess the carbon content (and other earth insults) for products the manufacturer didn't provide verifiable data for... and just as necessary, some believable plan for using the money collected. *But* that too would still provide only temporary relief!! The co2/$ ratio for total economic product (economic efficiency) can only be reduced toward a positive limit and not toward zero (real 2nd law). Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 680 Ft. Washington Ave NY NY 10040 tel: 212-795-4844 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] explorations: www.synapse9.com
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