Ah well yes, life is undefined because the systems we build and make proofs about are informational constructs and life is a physical construct. But what was Rosen's idea of 'right program' that he was saying couldn't exist?
The problem with physical systems is that there is so much that has to remain hidden about them, and it's not useful to simply declare that everything hidden is irrelevant because that's not true, but we need to teach information structures to go look for it and don't quite know how. Just a guess, but an information incompleteness theorem might be used that way. Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 680 Ft. Washington Ave NY NY 10040 tel: 212-795-4844 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] explorations: www.synapse9.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Russell Standish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:44 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity > Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Robert Rosen > > > There is a school of thought called "strong ALife", stating > that computational systems can be alive, given the right > program. It is analogous (but not equivalent to) the better > known "strong AI" position, sometimes known as "computationalism". > > Rosen's result essentially says that "strong ALife" is > impossible. Hence the interest in it, particularly from > ALifers. There is also interest from AI people and more > importantly philosphers of the mind, as it is often thought > that the parallels between ALife and AI are strong enough to > carry results from one field to the other (which personally > I'm a bit dubious about). > > Of course, it doesn't help that nobody has a really good > definition of life... > > On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 06:23:52PM +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I missed the implication people are finding in Rosen's idea of > > "non-computable models". Can someone offer some examples of > instances where that matters. It sounds like it means > something other than 'insoluable'. Could it perhaps include > 'internalized' & so therefore not accessible? > > > > Phil > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Mathematics > UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
