Steve,

I confess that I enjoy rubbing their noses in their speculative
circle-jerks, now and then.

Another topic: do you know Ed MacKerrow?

--Doug

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Steve Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

>  Doug -
>
> Suzanne and I just watched Paper Chase (1973) again and were treated to the
> dry commentary of John Hausman as curmudgeonly professor Kingsfield.    Your
> comment reminded me of the equally dry delivery he gave in a TV commercial
> several years later for an investment house? where he uttered the line
>
>     "We make money the old-fashioned way, we EARN it!"
>
> That noted, I would submit that the FRIAM list (and Friday kaffe klatch)
> *IS* more about speculative discussion than it is about problem solving.  I
> find there is a delicate distinction between the interesting exploration of
> ideas through group speculation and well... what I think we all know of as a
> "circle jerk".  I take this risk every time I let myself get drawn into a
> thread.
>
> - Steve
>
> Has anybody just tried to design this application the old-fashioned way;
> i.e., develop a set of requirements that
>
>    - define the interactions between the components of the system,
>    - identify (clearly, no vagueness allowed) the desired results from
>    running the simulation,
>     - identify (clearly, no vagueness allowed) the inputs for the
>    simulation, and
>
> *then* determine what design best fits the application?
>
> Just asking, 'cause this thread so far sniffs out suspiciously like another
> "I want to talk about how *I* want to think about how (in the purest
> theoretical sense) simulations should be designed/implemented/thought of."
>
> Just asking...
>
> --Doug
>
>
> As compared to endlessly seeing that special, elegant simulation
> implementation system that is the ideal match to this particular problem
> domain?
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:26 PM, russell standish 
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:46:26PM -0500, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>> > I don't think you'll find this because it implies programming a higher
>> > purpose and allowing the agents to jump the rails, as it were, and start
>> > negotiating their way through the combinatorics of alternative networks.
>> > Similarly, you won't find models in which agents invent new inputs to
>> > monitor, new outputs to generate, and new rules which involve new inputs
>> and
>> > new outputs.
>> >
>> > Optimization within a fixed solution space, which is what we do when we
>> let
>> > agents play with the flow through a fixed network or let them search out
>> the
>> > most profitable rules in a set of prespecified alternatives, gets hairy
>> > enough without opening things up to the infinity of potential solutions
>> that
>> > we didn't have time to program into the model ourselves.
>> >
>>
>>  EcoLab is an example of a model where the state space evolves over
>> time rather than staying fixed. It is not quite the ABM that Russ
>> Abbott is looking for, but does illustrate that it is possible. One
>> crucial feature is that there must be a separation of scales - the
>> dynamics of the system (optimisation, or whatever) must occur more
>> rapidly than the change to the state space. Otherwise, you get what is
>> known in the ALife world as a mutational meltdown - evolution ceases
>> to operate.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
>> Mathematics
>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052                         [email protected]
>> Australia                                http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>>
>
> ------------------------------
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>



-- 
Doug Roberts
[email protected]
[email protected]
505-455-7333 - Office
505-670-8195 - Cell
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