Jochen, Oh, I was pretty sure that Dennett didnt LIKE the Cartesian Theatre idea; but I did think (without much confisdence) that he had invnted the term.
Sounds like I need to read some Baars. Is there a way of getting at it that doestn require large expenditures of money and effort? If the idea is that my consciousness is just what my behavior illuminates (spotlights), then this is not the cartesian theatre at all, but the New Realism, a la Holt. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ([email protected]) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > [Original Message] > From: Jochen Fromm <[email protected]> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> > Date: 10/23/2009 7:03:25 PM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness > > There is a difference between Dennett and Baars, > Dennett says the theater metaphor is not useful > to understand consciousness. He argues in > "consciousness explained" what consciousness > is not: it is not happening in a Catesian theater > where a single person, the self, sits before a > large stage or screen and watches what happens. > It is always easier to say what something > is not (e.g. non-linear, non-equilibrium, etc.) > than to say what it actually is. > > Baars says the theater metaphor is useful to > understand consciousness. He argues that > consciousness is like the bright spot cast > by the spotlight on to the stage of theater. > The other actors and those in the backstage > or in the audience represent the unconscious > elements. Dennett's theater is empty except > the little self sitting there, Baars' theater > is full of actors. > > I was asking about the latter version of > the theater metaphor. Dennett writes about > it "for those who want to join the race > to model consciousness, this is the starting > line" (on the Back Cover of Baars' earlier book > "A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness"). Is it? > Does anyone agree? > > -J. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 6:57 AM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness > > > > The idea you describe here is familiar to me as the "cartesian theatre", > > which I think arises from Daniel Dennet, Consciousness Explained??? It is > > also represented, I think, in a book called the User Illusion, which I > > have > > never read. It's a very tempting view because it is deeply imbedded in > > our > > day-to-day conversations about behavior. > > > > It is called the Cartesian Theatre because of Descartes's "brain in the > > vat" argument that leads to the conclusion that all we can for sure is the > > content of our own minds. On that basis, we start to think of experience > > as something we sit and watch played out sort of screen on the inside of > > our skulls, watched perhaps by the cyclopean eye of the pineal. As you > > know, it is my view that this sort of cartesian skepticism leads > > further:-- > > to the conclusion that we cant know anything for sure. On my account, if > > we cannot know about the world, we surely cannot know about our own minds. > > The argument is as follows: Any knowledge requires a knowledge-gathering > > mechanism that uses cues. If we doubt that there are more or less > > accurate > > mechanisms for gathering information about the world, why would we be > > confident that there are mechanisms for gtathering information about one's > > own mind. This is how I arrive at my position, "O what the fuck, why not > > just be realists and get the silliness over at the beginning." > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
