Sure soon Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: michael barron <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 10:02:33 To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group<[email protected]> Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] bold concepts re practical unity awareness: Fw: [tsk] What's TSK inquiry, and what 'new core values' might TSK promote? Steve Randall: Rich Murray 2010.08.14
rich: Both concepts are way out there. There ma not be an answer to the question, if one can formulate one! with metta, M PS. I checked out the truck,and there seems to be an oil leak that effects the gas flow after it warms up. If you have some time, I need to get the grocery store for some food. My son and his family are coming this Wed. for a 4 day visit. On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Victoria Hughes <[email protected]> wrote: > What motivates you? > > On Aug 15, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Russ Abbott wrote: > > Why do yo think it's important to climb the mountain? > > -- Russ > > > > On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Victoria Hughes <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> There are many paths up the mountain. >> Tory >> >> On Aug 15, 2010, at 9:22 AM, Sarbajit Roy wrote: >> >> Thanks >> >> I've just been reading some basic stuff about TSK on the net. >> >> The TSK movement seems to me about "living" - making the most out of >> life, time / object management for Westerners, whereas Asian Yoga >> addresses moving between various mind unrealities and rejection of >> earthly existence to assimilate a nothingness into awareness. >> >> Sarbajit >> >> On 8/15/10, Victoria Hughes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Not Yoga, except in that joined place of deep time and refined >> >> information that all investigations approach. >> >> Although some parts of his text sound like the Patanjali Sutras. >> >> Tarthang Tulku is/was a well-known much-loved and much published >> >> Tibetan Buddhist Lama, from the Nyinmga lineage. Very old, highly >> >> refined investigative mental focus and skepticism. Powerful practice >> >> if you do it. >> >> He came to the west decades ago and began the Nyingma Buddhist >> >> Institute in Berkeley. >> >> In his practice and observations of Buddhist investigation of the >> >> Western psychology, he developed a body of information and practical >> >> awareness called Time Space, Knowledge. I did several courses of >> >> practice in it when I lived in Berkeley. Nyingma is perched up above >> >> the city, above on the campus and near the lab. >> >> The people involved tended to be of the European academic >> >> intellectual bent. Very intense, rigorous practice, the Rinpoche knew >> >> his audience. Although like all Tibetan Buddhists, there's a very >> >> practical and earthy acceptance. >> >> Tory >> >> On Aug 15, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Sarbajit Roy wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm sorry, but what is this ? >> >> Its Yoga, not as we know it Jim. >> >> Sarbajit >> >> On 8/15/10, Rich Murray <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> bold concepts re practical unity awareness: Fw: [tsk] What's TSK >> >> inquiry, >> >> and what 'new core values' might TSK promote? Steve Randall: Rich >> >> Murray >> >> 2010.08.14 >> >> [ re "Time, Space, and Knowledge", Tarthang Tulku, Rinpoche, 1977 ] >> >> http://tska.info/prsnt.html >> >> http://stevrandal.wordpress.com/about/ >> >> >> http://stevrandal.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/whats-the-zone-of-peak-performance/ >> >> ] >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "stevrandal" <[email protected]> >> >> To: <[email protected]> >> >> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 4:38 PM >> >> Subject: [tsk] What's TSK inquiry, and what 'new core values' might >> >> TSK >> >> promote? >> >> In a paper titled "Human Values in a Changing World," compiled by >> >> Gaynor >> >> Austen from handwritten notes by Maaida Palmer, late director of >> >> the Turiya >> >> Yoga Centres in Australia, Maaida wrote: >> >> * Why are values so important to mankind? >> >> * Have new values come to be recognised, or are the old values >> >> constantly >> >> being presented? >> >> . . . >> >> In this changing world, has anyone discovered a new human value >> >> that he >> >> wants to disclose? It appears that our task is rather the >> >> stocktaking of >> >> values we already have. >> >> . . . >> >> The optimists say the flux in the current lifestyle is but the >> >> passing out >> >> of old outmoded values that have not worked and the introduction of >> >> new >> >> values yet to be born. >> >> . . . >> >> Is it possible to introduce a system of values based on knowledge >> >> of the >> >> nature of the human person - one that each individual can >> >> understand to be >> >> true and not just a system that is believed, or seems to be true? >> >> >> To me it seems that with TSK, Tarthang Tulku promotes the previously >> >> underrated value of the process or method of inquiry, of clear >> >> seeing, >> >> sensing, and exploring, going into all apparently fixed, or `real', >> >> or >> >> 'true' reference points, structures, beliefs, and assumptions, in >> >> an open, >> >> nonskeptical, yet challenging dis-covery process that eventually, >> >> directly, >> >> and effectively transparentizes or dissolves all structures, >> >> limitations, >> >> and fixed dynamics. Inquiry is a valued means of discovery, or dis- >> >> covery. >> >> Apparently 'simply' clearing the clouds is sufficient, and >> >> simultaneously >> >> shows the sunlight. >> >> Within the TSK texts, paradoxical, shared, naturally inherent, core >> >> 'values' or quality-facets are described. Those following were >> >> derived >> >> from (yet may not faithfully represent) statements in the texts: >> >> 1: flow >> >> . tension and resistance without effort by a self. >> >> . coordination and order with complete spontaneity, and without >> >> control by a self. >> >> . dancing without a sense of a dancer, or doer of the dancing. >> >> . a particular person doing something while there is complete >> >> spontaneity, with no doer. >> >> . attribution of causation without experiencing a causative entity >> >> or event separate from an effect. >> >> 2: creativity >> >> . Appearance and events can have identifiable causes and sources >> >> within the >> >> world, and yet things can feel as though they come out of nowhere, >> >> with no >> >> source or cause. >> >> . The same objects, people, and world can be recognized repeatedly >> >> over >> >> time, >> >> and yet be seen as fresh, original appearances each time. >> >> . People and things can be assigned a historical identity while >> >> felt to be >> >> discontinuous >> >> or to be recreated moment by moment. >> >> 3: accomplishment >> >> . While we can attribute production and service to a particular >> >> individual, >> >> that person can experience the work as an activity that flowed by >> >> itself, >> >> with >> >> no effort. >> >> 4: objective space >> >> . Familiar things, while separate and distributed over ordinary >> >> space, are >> >> nevertheless >> >> unseparated and even intimately connected within and as a higher >> >> order, >> >> dimensionless space. >> >> . While the physical world may be a referent for any activity, no >> >> world >> >> order >> >> seems fixed outside and around us. >> >> . Objects may have an inside and outside, yet they need not have any >> >> perceived >> >> depth. >> >> . While there may be measurable lengths, there is no felt distance. >> >> . Although objects have volume, they aren't experienced as >> >> extending in >> >> space, >> >> or exclusively occupying space. >> >> . Geographical coordinates and points, and "here" and "there" can >> >> mark >> >> positions; >> >> however, there are no felt spatial divisions or extension-everything >> >> is the same space, "here." >> >> 5: mental space >> >> . I can have a mind without needing to feel that it's separate from >> >> others' >> >> minds. >> >> . I can have a mind without feeling that it's stable, continuously >> >> existing, >> >> or >> >> independent of "the outside." >> >> . I can have a personal space or position without having to feel >> >> separate >> >> from >> >> anything/anyone else. >> >> 6: identity >> >> . There can be people with names and histories who nevertheless >> >> have no >> >> sense of substantiality or continuous existence. >> >> . There can be recognizable personality without an experience of >> >> personality-owner >> >> and without a feeling of repeated patterns. >> >> 7: locus of knowing >> >> . While an individual can know and perceive, knowing need not feel >> >> like it >> >> belongs to a person, takes time, or radiates or occurs from a center. >> >> . When a particular person knows an object, there may be no felt >> >> distinction >> >> between knower and known. >> >> . When a particular person knows a locatable object, knowing can be >> >> experienced >> >> as a nonlocated encompassing field. >> >> 8: content of knowing >> >> . While particular objects, events, or thoughts are known, still >> >> there can >> >> be a >> >> sense of comprehensive, unbounded knowing. >> >> . The perception of a particular object need not involve a sense of a >> >> perceiver >> >> nor any feeling of separate context for the object. >> >> . Thoughts can express distinctions without referring to >> >> experientially >> >> separate >> >> objects, people, or events. >> >> . Memories need not refer to a separate past position, and hopes, >> >> anticipations, >> >> and expectations need not refer to separate future positions. >> >> . Pain, suffering, and emotion can appear without a relatively >> >> positioned >> >> victim >> >> or owner. >> >> 9: well-being >> >> . There can be a person with a personality, reasoning, emotion, >> >> sensation, >> >> intuition, >> >> and different body parts without any sense of fragmentation or >> >> feeling >> >> of separate "parts." >> >> 10: need and fulfillment >> >> . A person can have desire and preference, or can pursue this or >> >> that course >> >> of action, without any sense of need or deficiency. >> >> . Whether a situation is labeled positive or negative, ugly or >> >> imperfect, >> >> fulfillment >> >> and complete appreciation are immediately available. >> >> . Within a finite duration of clock time infinite fulfillment is >> >> available. >> >> . Although most of the world is outside the individual, a person >> >> need not >> >> feel >> >> cut off from or lacking anything. >> >> 11: feeling of time >> >> . There can be distinguishable past, present, and future times >> >> without any >> >> felt >> >> separation between the times. >> >> . Events can "occur" without any experienced movement or transition >> >> from >> >> one to another. >> >> . Clock time may be finite and limited, but the experienced >> >> duration of a >> >> period >> >> of clock time is not at all fixed. >> >> 12: feeling of reality >> >> . While objects and people exist and interact, they can seem >> >> ethereal and >> >> insubstantial. >> >> . When events occur, it can seem dreamlike, as though nothing at >> >> all is >> >> really >> >> happening. >> >> . The clearer our perception, the less we see reality as a compounded >> >> object. >> >> . Although knowledge may refer to physical and mental realities, >> >> certainty >> >> is diminished in proportion to how experientially separate entities >> >> seem. >> >> . Experiential fragmentation of objective reality destroys certainty. >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tsk/ >> >> <*> Your email settings: >> >> Individual Email | Traditional >> >> <*> To change settings online go to: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tsk/join >> >> (Yahoo! ID required) >> >> <*> To change settings via email: >> >> [email protected] >> >> [email protected] >> >> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> >> [email protected] >> >> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> ----------------------------------- >> >> TORY HUGHES >> >> [email protected] >> >> Tory Hughes website >> >> Facebook|Tory Hughes Art >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> ----------------------------------- >> TORY HUGHES >> [email protected] >> Tory Hughes website >> Facebook|Tory Hughes Art >> ------------------------------------ >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > ----------------------------------- > TORY HUGHES > [email protected] > Tory Hughes website > Facebook|Tory Hughes Art > ------------------------------------ > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
