I his 1944 "What is Life <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_is_Life%3F>," Schrödinger identifies a fundamental characteristic of living beings as being able to retain a relatively lower level of entropy by extracting energy from the environment. Since As compounds are so much less stable than P compounds the strategy that the As bacterium uses to maintain its low entropy level will probably constitute the most important aspect of this recent discovery. I wonder if these bacteria use relatively more energy to survive than comparable P bacteria or if they discovered a technique to maintain their structure that is not as dependent on stable As/P compounds. * -- Russ*
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Robert Holmes <[email protected]>wrote: > http://xkcd.org/829/ > > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Miles Parker <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Yeah -- staying out of the name the pill controversy ;) -- one neat little >> tidbit in the "I'm always amazed by how little I know and how little I've >> thought about what I do know" category. We think of Arsenic as a poison, but >> the only reason we think of it as a "poison" is (duh) that it is bad for >> *us*, i.e. humans + every other critter that we've run into before now. But >> the reason that it is bad is not that it is different from our chemistry, >> like an acid, but that it is so close to our chemistry, being next to >> phosphorous on the old periodic table, thus disrupting cellular mechanisms. >> So while typically we think of things that are close in structure or design >> to be friendly in fact here a movement to our nearest neighbor represents a >> major boundary shift, while one to a distant neighbor would of course be >> quite unlikely as the chances of slotting into the same role would be very >> slim. That idea could certainly argue for the idea that the current six >> element setup is arbitrary against some set of possible configurations. Once >> a choice is made in that configuration space it would be very unlikely (and >> only under these kind of extreme conditions) that we would move off it. The >> fact that we can (hmm, I mean I actually probably can't so please don't >> subject me to any experiments) anyway makes the argument that "because >> that's the only way it works here" even more tenuous. >> >> >> On Dec 2, 2010, at 9:21 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote: >> >> Following Glen, Roger, and James, and also wondering why Nick is being a >> pill.... >> >> I believe the report is of interest for showing an organism that uses >> arsenic in interesting ways, but it gets its magical-shininess (i.e. Science >> worthiness) for showing an organism that does not use phosphorous. We >> have never found a life form that could do the "life" thing without >> phosphorous. It is almost (almost) like finding an organism that uses >> silicon instead of carbon. >> >> Oh, and then there is the potential for practical application... like >> cleaning up arsenic, which is a common pollutant coming out of mines. But >> anything like that is a long way off. >> >> Eric >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 08:03 PM, *Roger Critchlow <[email protected]>* wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:39 PM, glen e. p. ropella <[email protected] >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> [*] FWIW, I find it odd for you to ask, of this particular article, "why >>> is this important?" Of all the obscure, mumbo-jumbo journal articles >>> out there (our discussion of PoMo aside ;-), it seems blatantly obvious >>> to me that the substitution of As for P in DNA is important, even if we >>> don't know what the implications are. I am woefully ignorant of the >>> literature, though. Is it fairly common to find and report substitutes >>> for DNA components? >>> >>> No, it's not common, it's never been reported before, all DNA and RNA >> in life as we have known it up until today has been based on phospho-esters. >> >> -- rec -- >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied >> Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's >> College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps athttp://www.friam.org >> >> Eric Charles >> >> Professional Student and >> Assistant Professor of Psychology >> Penn State University >> Altoona, PA 16601 >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
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