Religion is not inherently bad. It is the use of it for mundane power
that is the problem.
All religious traditions began with a prophet / visionary / mystic who
urged tolerance, peace and self-awareness. Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha...
In most cases, that person's initial followers began to leverage their
own closeness and supposed 'superior understanding' to that original
figure to justify behaviour that benefited their mundane activities.
Every religion has gone through this. Every creed of any kind has gone
through this. The challenge is our use of belief.
Nick could speak to this too: there are developmental lines in the
psychology of individuals, groups, nations, tribes, etc: and these
will use powerful innate tools (like the human need to believe in
something) for different purposes, depending on their development.
And there is nothing inherently wrong or flawed in the things in which
people embed their beliefs. Science, truth, the divine, all those have
positive beneficial elements. Again, it is the use of those concepts
as tools to persuade others into actions that destroy that is the
problem.
Self-awareness in all this is the key.
Tory
On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
One semi-final note from me about culture and religion: I lived in
Libya for a year in 1976 when I was a consultant to Occidental
Petroleum. I traveled extensively between Tripoli, Benghazi, and
several points about 900 miles southeast of Tripoli in the northern
tip of the Sahara during that year. I quickly learned that the
culture of the Arabic half of Libya (as compared to the Berber
Bedouin culture that comprises the eastern half of the country) is
dominated by the Islamic religion. You cannot separate them.
Religion is interwoven into every aspect of their culture. Any
attempt to exclude the impact of religion on their culture will fail.
--Doug
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Douglas Roberts <[email protected]
> wrote:
Let's see if I understand you correctly, Owen.
There are a bunch of fundamentalist Islamists all up in arms
shouting "Allahu Akhbar" whilst burning down our embassies and
killing our diplomats because there is a film out that is derogatory
of the Muslim religion.
And this is not about religion?
I don't see it.
Or you don't see it.
What I do see is that there is one very large disconnect on this
particular issue.
--Doug
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Owen Densmore
<[email protected]> wrote:
I do not believe this to be a religious issue at all. The question
is of groups and institutions.
When a faction of a group becomes apparently insane, do we not
expect the entire group, its leaders and majority, to speak up and
to mend?
When civil rights were an issue in the south, many of us (I was at
Georgia Tech) spoke up, and indeed many churches of all stripes did
so. Many NRA members also speak up about the extreme position the
organization takes. Examples abound. And yes, I consider this a
Complexity domain, much like Miller's Applause model.
Isn't this possibly a cultural issue? Possibly regional? The
largest Muslim population is not Libya or Egypt or even all of the
middle east, its Indonesia. They do not appear to have this issue.
So my question stands as Kofi stated:
"Where are the leaders? Where is the Majority? Nobody speaks
up."
NOT the religious leaders but the leaders of the culture in which
the religion lies.
And Hussein, forgive me, but your inward religious stance has
nothing to do with speaking out against injustice. It is not a
religious issue, but a civic, cultural one.
-- Owen
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Doug Roberts
[email protected]
[email protected]
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505-455-7333 - Office
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--
Doug Roberts
[email protected]
[email protected]
http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins
505-455-7333 - Office
505-670-8195 - Cell
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
