If I carry on for another 45 minutes it will be time to cook dinner and I cannot either pack or winterize for yet another day.
May God have mercy on my soul. n Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:51 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Doxastic logic - Wikipedia 1. Empirical. 2. Freud is as close to God as early 20th century intellectuals can get. 3. Your rationalized procrastination makes sense to me. :-) Frank Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Sep 21, 2017 2:46 PM, "Nick Thompson" <nickthomp...@earthlink.net <mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: Ok. Self-reflection time. 1. Ah! Perhaps we ARE just quibbling about meanings. To what extent does action based on assumption, A, imply that at the moment of acting, one holds A as a belief? I seem to be claiming that it does so as a matter of logic; perhaps the rest of you think it is an empirical claim. 2. I have not defended my trotting out Peirce as if he were God, particularly given that I have done so in commentary on others trotting out Feynman as if HE were God. I do so because it is easier for me to figure out what somebody else thinks than to figure out what I think, and also if feels less narcissistic. But as Glen points out, this benefit is ephemeral because, of course, [What I think Peirce thinks] is just [Something that I think] and others may wisely doubt that I have Peirce right. 3. I now know why I am being cranky. I am supposed to be winterizing the Massachusetts house and packing to travel to Santa Fe. I hate travel, I hate winterizing, and I hate packing. From my actions, I surmise that I have been acting in the belief that I will be happier if I start a fight on FRIAM then if I put my head down and do the things I am supposed to be doing. Sober reflection suggests that I may be wrong in that belief. Will this reflection result in a change in my beliefs? Only my actions will tell. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> ] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:54 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Doxastic logic - Wikipedia There is nothing that infuriates me more than trying to solve a problem with/for someone is confident in their hypothesis for no reason other than a few past experiences. No we definitely can live with doubt. For goodness sake we have Donald as president. It is a personality disorder when people can’t depart from their priors in the face of actual evidence. From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 1:48 PM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Doxastic logic - Wikipedia Dear Glen, I don't know why I am so pissed at Feynman right now but this quote: "When you doubt and ask, it gets a little harder to believe. I can live with doubt, and uncertainty, and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things. I'm not absolutely sure of anything. And there are many things Ι don't know anything about. But Ι don't have to know an answer. I don't ... Ι don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the universe without having any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as Ι can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me." … is another one of those sentiments that we would immediately recognise as absurd if Feynman hadn’t said it. Peirce would say, for the most part, we cannot live in doubt. We cannot doubt that the floor is still under our feet when we put our legs out of the bed in the morning or that the visual field is whole, even though our eyes tell us that there are two gian holes in it. Every perception is doubtable in the sense that Feynman so vaingloriously lays out here, yet for the most part we live in a world of inferred expectations which are largely confirmed. Like the other Feynman quote, it is wise only when we stipulate what is absurd about it and make something wise and noble of what is left. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of g??? ? Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 1:59 PM To: FriAM <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Doxastic logic - Wikipedia A better Feynman quote that targets this issue is this one, I think from a BBC interview: "When you doubt and ask, it gets a little harder to believe. I can live with doubt, and uncertainty, and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things. I'm not absolutely sure of anything. And there are many things Ι don't know anything about. But Ι don't have to know an answer. I don't ... Ι don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the unverse without having any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as Ι can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me." He was talking in the context of religion, but I think it applies to every type of "knowledge", including the "thought manipulation" that is philosophy. The point is not that "thought manipulation" can never be useful. But that one can _justifiably_ take the position that philosophy should (moral imperative) be done in the _service_ of something else. You cited Smullyan in the OP, which is relevant. Many of Smullyan's publications are puzzles, games. Some of us simply enjoy puzzles. (I don't.) But every puzzle is a math problem. It's up to the puzzle solver to settle on why they're solving puzzles. Are they doing it because it FEELS good? Or are they doing it because either the solutions or the exercises facilitate some other objective? Some puzzle solvers (e.g. video gamers) find themselves in a defensive position, trying to justify their fetish against the world around them. The silly rancor many "practical" people aim at philosophers can make some of them defensive. And it's a real shame that we shame philosophers for doing it just because they enjoy it. But it moves from merely shameful to outright dangerous when a philosopher can't distinguish their own _why_. Someone who does it because it's fun shouldn't waste any time yapping about how useful it is. And someone who does it because it's useful shouldn't waste any time yapping about how fun it is. Get over it. Be confident. Engage your fetish and ignore the nay-sayers. On 09/21/2017 09:53 AM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Glen - > > I share your use of the term "Science" as in being an activity (roughly) > defined by "the Scientific Method" just as I use the term "Art" as the > process rather than the product (aka "Artifact"). > > When I do anything vaguely (or presumptively) artistic, I think of my role as > that of an "Artifex" more than an "Artist" because I feel more emphasis on > the conception/making than on being tuned into or tied into a larger, higher > group/power which is how I read "Art and Artist". I have a similar > ambivalence about "Scientist/Science". Despite degrees in Math and Physics, > my practice has rarely involved actual Science (or more math than just really > fancy arithmetic), though I have worked with "real Scientists" and close to > "Scientific Progress" for most of my life. I don't even think of my work as > having been that of an Engineer, but truly much closer to simply that of a > "Technologist". And as everyone who has read my missives here can attest, > my throwdown as a "Philosopher" is equally detuned... but suspect myself to > oscillate wildly between the poles of "Philosopher" and "Philistine". All > that rattled off, I truly value having enough understanding of all of these > ideals to recognize the differences qualitatively, and to have mildly > informed opinions about the better and worser examples of each quantitatively. -- ☣ gⅼеɳ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
