Dave West supports Nick.

Two proper nouns and such a rich metaphor.

davew


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019, at 1:20 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Steve, ‘n all,

> 

> Just to be cranky, I want to remind everybody that ALL language use, except 
> perhaps tautological expressions, is metaphorical. So then, the question is 
> not, “Is this a metaphor”, but what kind of a metaphor is it and is it 
> pernicious. My own view is that in any “tense” conversation – one in which 
> the parties feel the words really matter – it behooves a metaphor-user to 
> define the limits of the metaphor. So, for instance, much mischief has arisen 
> in evolutionary biology from a failure of theorists to define the limits of 
> their use of such metaphors as “natural selection” and “ adaptation”. When 
> limits are defined, the surplus meaning of a metaphor is separated into two 
> parts, initially, that which the metaphor-user embraces and that which s/he 
> disclaims. The embraced part goes on to become the positive heuristic of the 
> metaphor, the “wet edge” along which science develops. The disclaimed part, 
> must be further divided into that which was legitimately [logically] 
> disclaimed and that which was disclaimed fraudulently. For instance, when 
> sociobiologists use the notion of selfish gene, they may legitimately 
> disclaim the idea that genes consciously choose between self-regarding and 
> other-regarding options, but they cannot legitimately disclaim the idea that 
> a gene has the power to make any choice but the self-regarding one And that 
> idea is patently false. Genes do not make choices, they ARE choices and the 
> choice is made at the level of the phenotype or at the level of the 
> population, depending on how one thinks about the matter. So the metaphor 
> ‘selfish gene’ is pernicious in evolutionary biology, because it creates 
> confusion on the very point that it purports to clarify – the level at which 
> differential replication operates to generate long term phenotypic change in 
> a population.

> 

> Dave West, I expect you to support me in this.

> 

> Nick

> 

> PS – Is anybody on this list (among the handful that have gotten this far in 
> this post) familiar with the work of Douglas Walton? He seems perhaps to have 
> written a lot about misunderstandings in AI systems … i.e., how does Siri 
> know what we mean? I came to this work through my interest in abduction, 
> which may be described as the process by which we identify (ascribe meaning 
> to?) experiences. Walton seems to suggest that you-guys are way ahead of the 
> rest of us on the process of meaning ascription, and we all should go to 
> school with you. Please tell me where and when you offer the class.

> -N

> 

> Nicholas S. Thompson

> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

> Clark University

> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

> 

> *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith
> *Sent:* Friday, March 08, 2019 10:03 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?)

> 


> Lee -

>> Steve writes in relevant part:
>>  
>>> My position is that I favor each and every one of us taking whatever
>>> responsibility for understanding our own "convex hull" of
>>> capability/knowledge/intuition as we are capable of and "managing" it to
>>> the best of our ability.
>>  
>> The quotation marks around the phrase 'convex hull' and the word
>> 'managing' presumably signal that they are being used non-literally, and
>> (I guess) metaphorically.
> Thanks for asking (I think).


> I was responding to Roger's use of the term which I took to mean specifically 
> the geometric "surface" known as a *Pareto Frontier 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficiency#Pareto_frontier> *which is 
> essentially a (hyper)surface (line in 2D) which describes (geometrically a 
> containing space of) the collection of optimal solutions in a 
> high-dimensional trade space. It *is* equivalent to the *Convex Hull * 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convex_hull#Convex_hull_of_a_finite_point_set>problem
>  in geometry, but carries an implication for multi-objective optimization.

>>   I would particularly like Steve, if he is
>> willing, to delve into the intended metaphor in the first case.  On the
>> one hand, lots of my work uses more or less geometry; on the other, in
>> lots of my other work I use metaphor; and I even think and write about
>> metaphor.  So it's likely that I'm taking the metaphor more seriously than
>> intended.
> I do believe that studying the Wikipedia articles linked above will lead to a 
> detailed explication of what I was referring to. 

> I will also accept responsibility for my irresponsible use of ' " ' marks. 
> For me, it is often a shorthand for indicating that the term within the 
> quotes is a "reserved term" (*Reserved Term*) from some *Specialized Lexicon* 
> which I trust the reader is either familiar with or (with my hint) recognizes 
> as being a term with specific, intentional and likely obscure (to the casual 
> reader) but non-trivial meaning. In other words, I'm trying to indicate that 
> it is a very specifically *Loaded Word* (or phrase).

>> With that disclaimer: in the technical contexts I'm familiar with, to pass
>> from something X to the convex hull of X has the effect of (1) 'filling in
>> holes in X', in a well-defined manner that is (2) as economical as
>> possible and (3) (therefore) unique. Which (if any) of those properties
>> are reflected, and how, in the case that X is our
>> "capability/knowledge/intuition"?  ... I could ramble on a lot more but
>> will start with that.
> And I believe this does align with *Convex Hull* as used above... the 
> specific relevance to multi-objective optimization would require reference to 
> *Pareto Frontier"*or *Pareto Surface *which (as Wikipedia elaborates well) 
> originated in economic theory but is relevant to any multi-objective 
> optimization problem.

> It could be noted that I had to go back and edit out yet more egregious uses 
> of ' " ' in this text, using *Capitalized Italics* in it's place. I don't 
> know if that is ideal, but generally that would be my preferred typographical 
> indication of a *Reserved Term* from a *Specialized Lexicon*. I will try to 
> be more consistent in the future, and am open to being schooled on a more 
> proper typographical (within the realm of text consisting of the basic roman 
> alphabet and italics/bold formatting) indication.

> Orthogonal to my orthographic transgressions, I admit also to playing fast 
> and loose WITH metaphor, sometimes being whimsical about it, other times 
> using it in a very intentional and specific way as rigid (in some cases) as a 
> (complex) formal analogy. 

> I would claim (following Lakoff and Nunez in _Where Mathematics Comes From_ ) 
> that all metaphors ultimately ground in human sensations provided by our 
> embodiment. I also work on the operational assumption the our primary mode of 
> understanding is via (conceptual) metaphor (Lakoff & Johnson _Metaphors we 
> Live by_)... metaphor stacked on top of metaphor which is grounded in our 
> embodied sensuality. Near the bottom of that stack we often find metaphorical 
> *Source Domains* (or our *Image Donor*) from geometry. 

> In closing, to try to tie these two points together, my *Reserved Terms*, 
> formerly (sloppily) indicated by "scare quotes" (*Scare Quotes*?) may be from 
> a *Specialized Lexicon* derived from a specific (common or obscure) 
> *Metaphorical Source Domain. *

> I believe that it is *more common* in *Internet Culture* to reserve *Scare 
> Quotes* for sarcasm or derision, but I may not have that quite right?

> - Steve

> PS. I am given to bracketing words I intend to be read as *emboldened* with 
> '*'s which seem to often be rendered exactly that way. I use 
> preceding/following '_' underscore marks to indicate _Underlined Text_ which 
> does NOT seem to be rendered that way often. And I am erratic in my use of 
> *bold* and CAPS for simple emphasis. Also open to some improved/alternative 
> conventions and promise to *TRY* to be more consistent.

> 

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