Glen, There is a LOT in your messages that I like, agree with, and/or want to think more about before I respond. First, tho, let me clarify my position.
I stipulate that IF the experiences produced by psychedelics are sciencible, then they are science. What we call "SCIENCE" is just a formalization and distillation of broader patterns of analysis and exploration that have proven to be more successful, "i.e., science". It is that broader pattern for which I claim privilege. If there are patterns in experience, then this is the way to find them. If this is NOT the way to find patterns in experience, then it is not science. To the extent that the prejudices and practices of any group of scientists, myself included, are inconsistent with science, as understood above, they are probably NOT science, no matter who should claim otherwise. I hope that you stipulate that the kind of verbal analysis and metaphorical "play" that we have been engaging in during this discussion is a PART of what people do when they do good science. For my part, I stipulate that to pursue these activities to the exclusion of gathering data, either directly or indirectly, is to fetishize philosophy and make a mockery of science. Bit -- to allow myself a bit of agism-- it's what old people can do, or, perhaps, less grandiosely, it's what I can do right now. And as long as I am tied to a community of inquiry -- that would be the rest of you, right -- I feel that I am pursuing science while doing it. To the extent that I have fended off empirical data, I am a bad old bugger and should be horsewhipped. In my defense, however, before you horsewhip me, let me say that I have tried to get clear, before I process the data on what happens when I take drugs, on the question of how that information is going to be worked into our scientific discussion, given that I perceive that there is some risk involved. On another matter, Glen, how are you doing with, what ate you doing about, the covid19?. A couple of weeks ago, I tried to get my wife to pack up and make a run for the pristine isolation of the Mosquito Infested Swamp, pleading great age and prior conditions. Nothin' doin'. So, now, I think, we are stuck. I can think of worse places to be stuck than santa fe, but I hate feeling stuck, even in paradise. Nick Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University [email protected] https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ? Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 8:18 AM To: FriAM <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pragmaticism and puritanism Well, I definitely privilege scientific ways of knowing more than any other way of knowing [†]. So I don't disagree with what you *say*. But it seems to me that *you* don't privilege scientific knowledge in these discussions. You talk a LOT about philosophy and metaphysics, but not much about scientific results. The recent 'round and 'round about "sledgehammers", Peirce's metaphysics, or whatnot, largely ignoring any attempts to discuss psychedelic research and medicine, seems to imply that you do not privilege science. So, maybe if I pull out the old saw again? If results published in peer-reviewed literature and clinical trial data will NOT convince you that psychedelics can be used as medicine, then what WOULD convince you? If nothing will ever convince you, then you certainly do NOT privilege science. [†] It ain't perfect; and it ain't the only kind of knowledge. But it's the best we have. On 3/10/20 11:03 AM, [email protected] wrote: > No, I am not sure that Dave and Glen would disagree with any of this. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
