On 5/23/20 9:15 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote: > The observer problem. Does it require a human to do the observation? > What about a parrot? A chimpanzee? An amoeba? A Turing machine? God, Gawdess, Gaia, Collective Intelligence? > > On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 9:47 AM Prof David West <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Peirce: > > "To satisfy our doubts, therefore, it is necessary that a method > should be found by which our beliefs may be determined by nothing > human, but by some external permanency—by something upon which our > thinking has no effect. ... Such is the method of science. Its > fundamental hypothesis, restated in more familiar language, is > this: There are Real things, whose characters are entirely > independent of our opinions about them; those Reals affect our > senses according to regular laws, and, though our sensations are > as different as our relations to the objects, yet, by taking > advantage of the laws of perception, we can ascertain by reasoning > how things really and truly are; and any man, if he have > sufficient experience and he reason enough about it, will be led > to the one True conclusion." > > The above quote is a context from which I am about to take words > and ask questions. Those more familiar with the Peirce corpus in > toto must admonish me if I am being unfair, i.e. this quote is an > outlier or an exception to Peirce in general. > > 1- If "There are Real things, upon which our thinking has no > effect," and there are"beliefs"" and "doubts" and "reasoning" that > are, arguably, affected by our thoughts: > a. Is Peirce a dualist? A Cartesian dualist that distinguishes > between an external permanency and internal thought? > b. Are beliefs, doubts, reasoning 'Real things'? > > 2- Quantum physics has an "observer problem" that seems to imply > that the the "characters of Real things" are, in fact, affected by > human thinking, or, at least, human attention." > a. Are there 'Real things'? > > 3- Weak postmodern objection: all beliefs and all methods are > determined by the human, technically the social, and there is no > objective criteria by which to give privilege over one human > determined method/belief over another.. > a. Does Peirce have grounds to privilege Reason over other > methods/beliefs, e.g. 'meditation', 'faith'? > > 4- Stronger postmodern objection: "the laws of perception," [the > rules of] reasoning," "sufficient experience," and "reason > enough," taken together, constrain the possible 'solution space' > too severely; the 'one [provisionally] True conclusion" is > foregone — a product of the process, not congruence with any > "external permanency." > a. What are the "laws" that govern how the Real affects our senses? > b. What are the "laws of perception?" > c. Does "sufficient experience" and "reason enough" mandate a > narrow, and intolerant, orthodoxy? > > davew > > > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . > -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... > ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
