Ok. Thanks, Dave. On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 8:39 AM Prof David West <[email protected]> wrote:
> Russ, > > I apologize for any insulting sarcasm. > > I forgot that most readers of those words did not share the context behind > them and therefore did not see the amused smile on my face as I wrote them. > The context was the first few meetings of the Mother Church immediately > following the election. The mood of those meetings and the tenor of the > discussion was pretty much exactly as my apocalyptic paragraph described. > > I was perplexed, and amused, that such intelligent people would react that > way. Nick, in particular, called me on that amusement, accused me of > schadenfreude and we all engaged in very friendly, not sarcastic, not > insulting, discussion. > > davew > > > On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, at 12:16 AM, Russ Abbott wrote: > > What bothered me about davew's post was the insulting sarcasm. > > A Trump was sounded (pun intentional) in the heavens, opening the Doors of > Hell and loosing the Dogs of Chaos. The end was clearly nigh. 'He' had his > finger on the button of nuclear annihilation! 'He' is a Russian agent! 'He' > is certifiably insane (narcissistic personality disorder at minimum)! More > concerning, the conviction that once installed 'He' would never leave. > American was at the verge of a precipitous drop into Fascism. > > Basically, destruction was at hand The Learned Authorities confirmed every > fear. The Forces of Good were marshalled, and salvationary doctrine was > issued. The Good marched, multiple crusades were launched to retrieve the > Holy Land from the Infidel(s). > > The system of beliefs, the reading of omens, the predictions and the > prognostication of the Millenarians of 1899,199,and 2012 survived but a few > days or months. That of 2016 persists to date, and will persist, I am > pretty sure, for another four years. > > Millenarianism is a mind set, a perspective, that takes hold in a culture, > or subculture, and predisposes the manner in which other events, other > aspects of the world, are interpreted. It affects how, and by what process, > people make decisions, individually and collectively. > > COVID, and the response thereto, is an example. From the point that people > began taking it seriously, it was interpreted as yet another apocalyptic > disaster to be laid at 'His' door. Correct courses of action are given > credence in direct proportion to their opposition to what 'He' might have > said or opined. > > > Presumably, davew doesn't believe that the preceding characterizes the way > any living human being thinks. So why pretend that it does other than to > insult people? And why does he want to insult people? We don't need any > more of that. We are already fully supplied with insults from the > insulter-in-chief. Let's not make things worse. > > -- Russ > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 10:19 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Well, to be completely honest, I understand that particular itch rather > less than some others. But David reads insatiably, often listens quite > carefully and insightfully to what others say. So I value him, even though > he seems to have this odd theory that shock increases the quality of > argument. I guess, maybe, sometimes it does. > > > > Thanks for your own provocations, over the years. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > [email protected] > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > > *From:* Russ Abbott <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, June 5, 2020 11:05 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] millenarianism > > > > OK. > > > > -- Russ Abbott > Professor, Computer Science > California State University, Los Angeles > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 8:36 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Aw come on, Russ. We all have itches. Let him scratch. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > [email protected] > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Russ Abbott > *Sent:* Friday, June 5, 2020 7:31 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] millenarianism > > > > I completely agree. It is assertive, bombastic, and stated without nuance. > More importantly, it's primarily name-calling with little useful substance. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 6:23 PM Prof David West <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I was asked some questions just as I was leaving vFRIAM today. The > following is a continuation of the thoughts that i started to articulate > then. I can pretty much predict that no one will agree with my > observations, but hope that vituperation will be kept to a minimum. > > > > My last year at St. Thomas, I team taught an honors course with a > Professor of Catholic Theology. The topic was *"Millenarianism in1899 and > 1999."* His contribution centered on religious movements, including some > within Catholicism, and mine was ethnographic. > > > > The groups we studied and taught about were about 2/3 preparing for the > End Times, the other third focused more on what you might call a > socio-cultural phase change, a transformation of society. > > > > The role of an anthropologist is "to make the strange familiar and the > familiar strange." A prime example of the latter is found in the various > studies of the Nacerima. > > > > *"The main belief of the Nacirema appears to be that the human body is > ugly and that the only way to prevent it from growing weak and diseased is > to practice powerful rituals devoted to this purpose. Every household has > one or more shrines devoted to this goal. The more powerful people in the > society have several ritual shrine rooms in their houses. ... While almost > every family has at least one shrine in the home, the ritual ceremonies > associated with it are not family ceremonies but are private and secret. > The rites are normally discussed only with children, and then only during > the period when they are being initiated into these mysteries."* > > > > If I were to write an ethnography of FRIAM, one chapter would be devoted > to Millenarianism, especially as practiced at the Mother Temple. > > > > A calendrical event precipitated the overt expression of millenarian > behavior and thought. instead of the turn of a century (1899, 19990 or the > end of a calendar (2012), it was the election of 2016. > > > > A Trump was sounded (pun intentional) in the heavens, opening the Doors of > Hell and loosing the Dogs of Chaos. The end was clearly nigh. 'He' had his > finger on the button of nuclear annihilation! 'He' is a Russian agent! 'He' > is certifiably insane (narcissistic personality disorder at minimum)! More > concerning, the conviction that once installed 'He' would never leave. > American was at the verge of a precipitous drop into Fascism. > > > > Basically, destruction was at hand The Learned Authorities confirmed every > fear. The Forces of Good were marshalled, and salvationary doctrine was > issued. The Good marched, multiple crusades were launched to retrieve the > Holy Land from the Infidel(s). > > > > The system of beliefs, the reading of omens, the predictions and the > prognostication of the Millenarians of 1899,199,and 2012 survived but a few > days or months. That of 2016 persists to date, and will persist, I am > pretty sure, for another four years. > > > > Millenarianism is a mind set, a perspective, that takes hold in a culture, > or subculture, and predisposes the manner in which other events, other > aspects of the world, are interpreted. It affects how, and by what process, > people make decisions, individually and collectively. > > > > COVID, and the response thereto, is an example. From the point that people > began taking it seriously, it was interpreted as yet another apocalyptic > disaster to be laid at 'His' door. Correct courses of action are given > credence in direct proportion to their opposition to what 'He' might have > said or opined. > > > > Arcana, e.g. the Master Question List that Nick distributed and the > "official pandemic models," are consulted. Convoluted combinations of > interpretations of elements of that arcana, determine how questions like, > "Is it safe to walk the streets of Wuhan on June 6, 2020? Simpler ways to > answer that question are available but ignored. For example, some 10 > million people, over half the population, in Wuhan have been tested. Only > 300, all of them asymptomatic, have tested positive. What are the odds of > meeting one of those positives on my stroll to the 'wet market'? > > > > ------ > > > > I know the preceding is assertive, bombastic, and stated without nuance. > But, it is not wrong, in the sense that if I were to write a book, i could > document and argue point by point to the same conclusions. > > > > davew > > > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . ...- --- .-.. ..- - .. --- -. -..-. .-- .. .-.. .-.. > -..-. -... . -..-. .-.. .. ...- . -..-. ... - .-. . .- -- . -.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > - .... . -..-. . ...- --- .-.. ..- - .. --- -. -..-. .-- .. .-.. .-.. > -..-. -... . -..-. .-.. .. ...- . -..-. ... - .-. . .- -- . -.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > - .... . -..-. . ...- --- .-.. ..- - .. --- -. -..-. .-- .. .-.. .-.. > -..-. -... . -..-. .-.. .. ...- . -..-. ... - .-. . .- -- . -.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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