Glen- Trying to practice empathic listening *and* response, I left unsent a response (several paragraphs) to the fragment of the conversation that seemed to be about "what means direct-experience" or my preferred term "direct apprehension". While it feels like an important distinction/discussion to me, I accept that this is NOT what you want to talk about and it would be self-indulgent of me to continue to re-inforce that thread-splinter (alliterates with splatter).
> Again, I want to talk about jaws flapping and lips moving. Not hoity-toity > things like molecules or quantum superposition. I know you will resist that. > But at least I can keep repeating it and hope that you might one day talk > about: So: > Motor Imagery of Speech: The Involvement of Primary Motor Cortex in Manual > and Articulatory Motor Imagery > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6579859/ > > Observation-execution matching and action inhibition in human primary motor > cortex during viewing of speech-related lip movements or listening to speech > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0028393211001801?via%3Dihub I also find this fascinating. Unfortunately I've not kept up with this work... it was very central-to but-unattainable-for the kind of work I aspired to do while at LANL with access to the funds and equipment to build high-fidelity (by those standards) synthetic sensoria. We did NOT have access to fMRI's and similar... the closest to it I got was with my (on my own time mostly) work with the UNM HPC/Arts-Lab and the MInd Institute. Human-Subjects testing is hard enough in academia, but adding the (very appropriate) layers that come with being at Lab that works with nuclear materials was overwhelmingly hard. The theoretical physics division had some plays in that area but they were somewhat distant from the weapons-physics programs that funded the high-end VR systems we were developing. Observing the neural processing (in)directly of *lip-reading* would be a very specific application of something that was *just* becoming possible via fMRI and other things "back in the day". The role of "Mirror Neurons" in non-verbal communication between individuals was fascinating, but as-yet understudied. Your two articles *do* make me want to go learn what has happened in those areas... from what I read here, there must be a great deal more understood and *measureable* than 10-15 years ago. I will happily ( I think ) sit back and listen to you and others reveal more about this work and it's implications, though I am sure I will be tempted to chime in looking for implications and applications to a broader experience than lip-reading. Such as posture/gesture recognition human-and-machine. Just as hoity-toity-bait I'll throw in the word "Labanotation" and stand back and try to listen. - Steve - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
