I think the program posted by Eric is not available outside the United States. But it shows several examples where that it is not a plausible explanation.
A friend of mine who is a gun enthusiast pointed out that police come after the fact and clean things up. They don’t prevent crime. That is his reason for being armed. My reason for not bothering is that crime is rare, esp. violent crime, even here in the United States. It is fear that is high. That was the point of my previous e-mail. Marcus On Jun 11, 2020, at 4:43 AM, Jochen Fromm <[email protected]> wrote: I wonder if the police in America is so aggressive because they operate in a hostile environment where everybody is allowed to carry a weapon (here in Europe it is forbidden). You know this Herbert Simon quote "Human beings, viewed as behaving systems, are quite simple. The apparent complexity of our behavior over time is largely a reflection of the complexity of the environment in which we find ourselves". If a police officer is in constant danger of being shot, then he will probably be much more stressed than one who is not constantly in life-threatening situations. Every home they check and every car they stop can be the last. Robert Sapolsky mentions in his books how people change under constant stress and how bad permanently elevated stress levels are. -J. -------- Original message -------- From: Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> Date: 6/11/20 00:46 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Thoughts on the Floyd protests In the 20 years I lived in Santa Fe, I had one interaction with a police officer when a likely drug addict tried to break into the house. When we got home, my large dog was teetering up in a window sill about ready to break through the window. I reported it to the police, even though I wasn’t even going to file a claim about it. What I got for my effort was a petulant, authoritarian young man that instructed me how I should contain my dog during his visit. (Dog was not being aggressive.) The officer was more threatening than the `criminal’. Piss off, officer. Oh, there was also the bikers that would ride into parking circle out where I lived in Arroyo Hondo, to party with the neighbor. They were loud and sometimes a little menacing. But it never would have occurred to me to call the police on them. That would just be antagonistic. The so-called public support services of the city can be witnessed down at the public library. Every homeless person comes through the library sooner or later. They come for the shelter, and other amenities like the possibility of watching porn on the public computers. Most of them are mentally ill, and some of them can be dangerous when agitated. Usually it is the onsite security person that escorts the ill-behaving ones out, and library staff sometimes have to take on that risk too. It seems better to me to prevent, or at least treat that damage than having it compromise the usability of that public resource; it wastes taxpayer money. I remember a story of a young boy (~8) who was left at the library all day by his `parents’ and told not to move. He followed his instructions so closely that he would defecate on himself rather than risk a trip to the bathroom. This happened repeatedly. I find it unacceptable that the gentle souls that work in a library are used to mitigate these social problems. But people just throw up their hands and leave it the police to cart off people from time to time. It’s like delaying medical care and ending up in the emergency room instead: Too late to help, and damned expensive as well. Marcus From: Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of Steve Smith <[email protected]> Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 at 2:58 PM To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Thoughts on the Floyd protests Glen - I know you weren't pulling our leg (or my finger). This was the post I was composing when the tone deaf joke formed and escaped: My "intellectual" interest is in how self-organizing principles and emergence operate in social contexts... on both sides of the debate here, as is being alluded to here already. When Law Enforcement gets significantly defunded, what fills the vacuum left by that? There are lots of *other* vacuums/rifts/holes being formed as our culture heaves and buckles a little under a series of shifts. I'm not sure what (if any) are root causes and what are just cascades and reactions. Globalism, NeoLiberalism, Authoritarinism, Fascism, Manic Hypercaptialism, Rapid Technological Change, Hyper Connectedness, Information Overload, etc. Many believe that shifting funding from law enforcement (which is by definition more reactionary than preventative?) to mental and social services which are intended to be more strongly pro-active in preventing the kinds of problems that the police often have to remediate down the road, is a net gain and possibly something that could be effected very quickly, even if positive results may lag in many cases. I don't know how well that works for/with hardened criminals who've already been taken from being under-nourished, under-respected, under-opportunitied youth through a series of trainings as a gang member first on the streets, and then inside prison for several stints, annealed and tempered by police, judges, prison-guards and one's fellow travelers to a strong core with a wicked-sharp edge. But maybe if her mother and younger siblings aren't struggling to keep groceries in the fridge and the fridge running then maybe she can mature into something a little kinder-gentler. Or maybe she already has, but it is hard to recognize when the only interface she has is a regular stop-and-frisking? I think we do see a record of mellowing among aging hard-cores who survive long enough to become elders in their communities? I think Jon?s suggestion that private security will fill the vacuum is also valid. More people will gate their communities and more gated communities will add uniformed patrols and more uniformed patrols will add lethal weapons and training. The next George Floyd might be your massage therapist who made the mistake of making house-calls to your gated community while black/brown/yellow/red/poor and the next Chauvin & Co will be guys who couldn't even get IN to the police academy but COULD buy mirror-shades, a loaded up batman utility belt, matching chromed .45s with shoulder holsters, an Armalite 15 and a riot-style shotgun (but not rubber nor armor-piercing rounds, those are for law-enforcement-only) to carry in their ominously painted and hopped up SUV with run flat tires, a push-bumper, blinky lights and a siren. And that tricked out rig, security "professional" included, will cost a fraction of what a *real* law enforcement officer would BECAUSE of the lack of oversight/training/benefits, etc. A new branch: UBERArmed? The above is mildy (but not entirely) the maunderings of a frustrated/unexpressed cyberpunk novelist (me)... but oddly not that far away in "some Adjacent Possible"? Personally, I'm more interested in how to use this Svaha/Liminal moment to "Visualize World Peace"? And what is in *that* adjacent possible (ensemble)? There is value to a Red-Team/Blue-Team analysis in these situations, and I think *both* are necessary. Awfulizing isn't the only thing to be doing right now. Things are shifting, vacuums are created, playing-fields are being re-leveled... are there opportunities to "do the right thing", or is "the right thing" so subjective that we will simply "move the noise around"? I identify as a humanist... I don't even know if that means what it used to (to others) or if I'm in anything like a "silent majority" in that identification. Maybe the Anarchists and Libertarians and Radical Progressives and Radical Conservatives and ??? all think THEY are humanists. Or maybe it's a bad word to them? I certainly remember my self-righteous Catholic M-in-Law spitting the words "Secular Humanist" as if they were acid, leaving smoking, corroding spots everywhere they landed. - Steve On 6/10/20 11:17 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote: We have evidence of it, here: Olympia police unions respond to photo of officer posing with armed men https://www.theolympian.com/news/local/article243401061.html FWIW, I think our mayor is wrong. The 3% sign isn't the OK sign, regardless of whether any supremacists actually use the OK sign or not. But like any tone deaf marketing message, if the symbol you adopt is *thought* to be a racist symbol, then you should go ahead and change it. Just stop flying the confederate flag even if it's been on your state flag for your whole life ... just stop using the swastika even if you're (East) Indian or Native American. But what does lend truth to the accusations leveled against the 3% is the lack of a public statement condemning Trump for violating the constitution in clearing St John's. If they exist to use their piddly little guns to protect us from the government, where were they then? Perhaps they are only interested in protecting a particular class of people? ... or only people with whom they agree politically? As for the cop in the photo, she should at least be suspended for her stupid mistake. Don't pose with with a bunch of dudes standing in a parking lot with guns. That's simply a stupid thing for a cop (or any professional) to do. And if you must do it, take off your uniform first. On 6/10/20 9:51 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: I think the point is that are already not accountable. Protected by unions and colleagues who will look the other way, and a culture that accepts that certain people must consent to miserable lives. On 6/10/20, 9:48 AM, "Friam on behalf of Prof David West" <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected]><mailto:[email protected][email protected]> wrote: downside is the private militias that Jon mentioned. just like the military that replaces soldiers with private contractors - to whom are the latter accountable? On 6/9/20 4:28 PM, Jon Zingale wrote: 1. Will the efforts to defund the police eventually meet with efforts to build private militias? Will the future of policing in this country follow a path similar to the shift from public to private postal service? If so, what will accountability be? - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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