Maturana and Varela use structural coupling at the "indiivual" before the "individual in context" before "group" before "control structures," e.g. "mind."
davew On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Prof David West wrote: > A simple — stymergic — example. Write down your waking blood sugar measure; > then everything you eat and the time you ate it; two hours after each intake, > measure and record your sugar level; and finally, your sugar level as you > retire to bed. Do this for several weeks. Your behavior will change in > detail, to your betterment. You do not even need to look at what you wrote > down or analyze it in any fashion. There is some degree of talisman magic in > knowing that the recordings are stored somewhere and available for review if > you ever wanted to, or if your clinician wanted to use it as data to develop > a hypothesis. > > Since you brought up the word and seem to think it has some meaning — I have > never understood stymergy because it seems to be grounded in the notion that > an organism is separate/apart from its environment. My understanding of > reality would assert that each are constant and simultaneous co-mediators of > each other. (Actually they are the same thing and any apparent > differentiation is just illusion.) > > The entire concept of autopoeisis and structural coupling, as I understand > it, would seem to be an example of "something at a higher order improving > itself by arranging its parts." > > davew > > > > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, at 1:32 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> If one allows stygmergy as a form of downward causation, I can understand >> it. So I guess I am looking for the simplest kind of example of self >> assembly: i.e., where something of a higher order improves itself by >> improving the arrangement of its parts. Or places constraints on its parts >> to be good for itself. There may be a thousand examples. I just can’t think >> of one that doesn’t involve group selection. >> >> N >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> Clark University >> [email protected] >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly >> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:16 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats >> >> >> I'm not Marcus but a classical example is mental events causing physical >> events. Note the use of mental language. >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 1:12 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Marcus, >>> >>> can't claim to understand you fully, here, but your use of the word, >>> sovereignty, made me think you might have something to contribute to a >>> quandary I found myself in recently. I was on a zoom with a bunch of >>> people. First they talked about emergence, and I figured I understand >>> that. Wimsatt: a property is emergent if it is a property of a whole that >>> depends on the order or arrangement of the parts. So, the ability of >>> sticks to bear weight depends on their arrangement as triangles. So far, >>> so good. But then the began to talk about "downward" causation, and I >>> realized that I did not know, nor have I ever known, what people mean by >>> "downward" causation. Do you have some simple models of it in mind that >>> even I could understand? >>> >>> Nick >>> Nicholas Thompson >>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >>> Clark University >>> [email protected] >>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels >>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 9:17 PM >>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats >>> >>> Using statistical mechanics to inspire a stable and universal functional >>> form that evolves in time is one way to make a model of social systems. >>> But even with that for model of the physical world, there are many possible >>> models for control systems that could layer on top of it. If there are no >>> shared concept types in these different models, there's nothing to do but >>> go back to simulating the physics to determine what could happen next. >>> Simulating these physics takes energy that is of no discernable value to >>> users of any one model so at some point there will be conflict over that >>> energy. The Libertarian claims that there is something in common between >>> the users of these models, but it is nothing more than story that serves >>> her purposes. There is no reason not to violate her sovereignty if the >>> reward/risk is acceptable. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of ? glen >>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:18 PM >>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats >>> >>> Well, sure. But the assumptions and simplifications are piling up fast. >>> With anarcho-capitalism, I was trying to suggest a governing system that >>> relies on as few assumptions as possible. And my sense is that social >>> democracy relies on more assumptions (like the existence of stable >>> functional forms). >>> >>> On September 14, 2020 6:13:33 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >It depends whether you think of "static" as some circumscribed state or >>> >"static" as a fixed functional form. (The latter still allowing for a >>> >dynamical system.) The appropriation/application of the notion of a >>> >"phase transition" would probably argue for the fixed functional form >>> >on the basis of physics. >>> >>> -- >>> glen ⛧ >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
