So if one is given a person (or a rat) and a genetic sequence that animal amounts to an endogenous theory?
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 4:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New ways of understanding the world Well, sure. But just because the theory is endogenous, doesn't imply that theory does not *exist*, nor that it's not *prior* to the launch. So, even in that case, Nick's correct that the theory (or a spanning kernel of it) exists before-hand. On 11/30/20 4:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Once one figures out how the monitor reacts then one can see how certain > registers change as a result of changes in instruction sequences. The > relationship of a perturbation to an outcome is simple, learnable and > relatively unambiguous for a typical microprocessor. Assembly of > subroutines follow the same principles. (One can observe a stack with enough > experimentation.) The language is learned (not given) and the axioms > implied by the structure of the machine. The goal of copying is sort of > beside the point. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New ways of understanding the world > > But if we use the word "theory" in its minimal sense of "a language and a set > of axioms", then your "to be copied so that it does the same thing" *is* a > theory, albeit a different theory (or containing theory) for one that would > treat the [un]copyable application over and above the act of copying. What > would be interesting would be the *number* and diversity of theories > validatable/executable against any given set of tokens. > > On 11/30/20 3:33 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> I spent a fair amount of my youth disassembling boot procedures of various >> copy protection schemes. There one is given a list of numbers that >> bootstrap an operating system and an application. A small portion of that >> list of numbers is relevant to preventing that list of numbers from being >> copied from one media to another. It wasn’t really necessary to have a >> theory of the application, generally, to understand how to change the >> numbers to make that list copyable. If one had no theory of a computer >> instruction set or of an operating system, but was just given a disk and the >> goal of copying it to get the computer to do the same thing when the copied >> disk was put in to the disk drive instead of the original disk, it is >> possible to learn everything that is needed to learn which numbers to >> change. No oscilloscope needed, no theory of solid state physics, etc. >> Ok, maybe one reference manual. Biology is the same, but without a concise >> reference manual. >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of >> *[email protected] >> *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2020 1:25 PM >> *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' >> <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] New ways of understanding the world >> >> >> >> All, >> >> >> >> I feel like this relates to a discussion held during Nerd Hour at the end of >> last Friday’s vfriam. I was arguing that given, say, a string of numbers, >> and no information external to that string, that no AI could detect “order” >> unless it already possessed a theory of what order is. I found the >> discussion distressing because I thought the point was trivial but all the >> smart people in the conversation were arguing against me. > > -- > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
