It is fine to say that humans will organize their cultures around the wishes of humans. They also have to organize cultures around the hard constraints of reality, like the climate. What I have zero patience for are people that are reserving for the possibility that their thinking and their feelings itself are changing those hard constraints. If they are, show us the mind over matter and how it works. Convince me it is real.
From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 3:33 PM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Islam-Science-Muslims-and-Technology-Seyyed-Hossein-Nasr-in-Conversation-with-Muzaffar-Iqbal-2009.pdf You read much faster than I. I spoke only to the intro, a narrative which described the history of the event and its implications for the participants and others. No big deal. Take what can you used and leave the rest on the table. By the way, those scientific modernizing Turks: weren’t they the same ones that sponsored the Armenian genocide. As Hywel used to say, “It’s more complicated than that.” n Nick Thompson [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 6:27 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Islam-Science-Muslims-and-Technology-Seyyed-Hossein-Nasr-in-Conversation-with-Muzaffar-Iqbal-2009.pdf Read like pages 83-86. That that tools of astronomy may be inadequate to characterize the cosmos. (Or maybe that we can never really model it?) And that from that we can conclude that models of the local physics of our biological machinery may also be inadequate? Non sequitur. There’s a Quran thumper in the woodpile. From: Friam <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 2:19 PM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Islam-Science-Muslims-and-Technology-Seyyed-Hossein-Nasr-in-Conversation-with-Muzaffar-Iqbal-2009.pdf Great, Dave, What did you see there that had that effect? n Nick Thompson [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 4:33 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Islam-Science-Muslims-and-Technology-Seyyed-Hossein-Nasr-in-Conversation-with-Muzaffar-Iqbal-2009.pdf The biggest problem with western science since the enlightenment, is the myth that pure science is morally neutral — that the science, e.g., making an atomic bomb, is totally and absolutely separate from the dropping of said bomb on Hiroshima. The best morning of my trip to Istanbul was the one spent in the Islamic Museum of Science and Technology. Wonderful exhibits. Strong antidote to the poison of modern scientism. davew On Sat, Sep 25, 2021, at 12:16 PM, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote: Dear Colleagues, Because of an interest some of you expressed in Islamic science, I ran down the text linked below. It is an entire book, and I have read only the first chapter, but I found that fascinating. It is a sort of airing of linen concerning the role of science in the modern Islamic world that tracks in interesting ways the recent American ambivalence about science. This first chapter is both unsettling and very familiar at the same time. http://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Islam-Science-Muslims-and-Technology-Seyyed-Hossein-Nasr-in-Conversation-with-Muzaffar-Iqbal-2009.pdf Ok, just to give you sense of one of the places it leaves me: If the fault of western science is that it is laced with unacknowledged western values, what would a science that acknowledged its values look like. I have argued that the science we practice is absurdly dualistic (given that we have only one source of information). But it is unclear to me how “dualism” is a value. Is the “rape of nature” and all that follows implicit in dualism? I wish I could claim that if I turn you all into monists, you will all become wind=turbine fanatics, but I don’t think that’s the case. Do values guide what we do or are they just the heavy artillery that we muster to convince others to do what we have done? See what you think? Nick .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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