Yeah, I'm not sure I buy the rhetoric that NATO countries can't directly engage Russian
forces because of the risks associated with world war or nuclear war. But I'm too
ignorant to play that game at that level. My sentiment is the US should just take out
that convoy. "Bring it on," I guess.
But I disagree with you that the internet has *not* facilitated networked
in-groups. We see such now with remote work, virtual conferences, eHealth,
electronic mental health, meditation apps, Bandcamp, Patreon, ... hell even the
righties have been networked by things like Gab and GiveSendGo. So, the problem
I'm highlighting *has* been delivered on by the internet. But such networking
has presented us with *another* problem, the lack of a shared foundation
between networks.
The overlapping, non-intersecting, networks between the left and right in the
US are founded on an an ungrounded abstraction, left vs right, much like the
ungrounded abstraction between Russian vs. Ukrainian citizenship, national
identity. Now that the internet has delivered us ways to perforate abstractions
like citizenship and nation, we need refined or new ways to re-ground such
networks in concrete things like food, shelter, health, climate, and
infrastructure.
I guarantee that if I get a chance to talk to one of the spitting righties at
the convoy protest planned for Olympia this Saturday, I'll be able to ground
that interaction in things like beer and potholes. But the antifa standing next
to me won't be interested in talking to the bearded fat trucker about beer and
potholes. That sign you're carrying is irrelevant. What matters is that there's
a fantastic brewery just down the street that brews a killer Vienna lager. And
Aline in Wonderland's political positions are irrelevant compared to whether
she had a good time visiting Paris.
Grounding matters, as SteveS' link to adversarial collaboration indicates.
On 3/3/22 08:26, Marcus Daniels wrote:
< We won't win the socio-cultural or climate war that way. We need tactics that
unify the geographically/politically *perforated* in-group as a network, not
according to artificial nationalist citizenhood and such. >
There's a targeted way to stop attacks on Ukrainian cities, and that's with the
use of air power against Russia's supply lines. The west is not yet prepared
to do that, so it has opted for collective punishment. Yeah, I also read
those Meduza articles, and clearly there are courageous people in Russia trying
to stop all this. Although I must admit when Trump was elected, I thought
isolate the US midwest like the west is isolating Russia and bring them to
kneel! I remember thinking in the early '90s that the internet could address
the problem you highlight, and it hasn't delivered on that at all.
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 7:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] war footing
OK. I don't disagree with any of that. But I still think it's somehow "flat" or
"surface" tactics only. Thanks to Tom for the Meduza link, this story also targets the
problem:
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/03/02/why-no-mass-protests-in-russia
Similar to the link off Cody's post, where you can send BTC to the "Come Back Alive"
charity <https://savelife.in.ua/en/donate/> and the similar but anti-violence DAO set up
by the Pussy Riot member, there needs to be a way to in-group *actual* Russians while
out-grouping Putinistas. E.g.
https://news.sky.com/story/food-was-great-unfortunately-putin-spoiled-our-appetites-by-invading-ukraine-tripadvisor-disables-russian-reviews-12555968
In Patreon's takedown notice for the Come Back Alive charity, they point out that there are many Ukrainian "creators"
you can support directly. But we can also support in-group Russians directly, encouraging those who reject authoritarianism and
act within their own tiny little sphere of influence. Without those rhizomic tendrils of influence into and *with* our in-group
in Russia, ham-handed things like sanctions will simply turn them against us, against what they associate with
"democracy", "liberalism", and "the West". We already see this in the rhetoric from our socialist
lefties, blaming the status of Russian oligarchs on our introduction of neoliberalism after the collapse of the USSR. And we see
it in the righties at the convoy protests, objectifying "liberals" and blaming them for positions they don't even
really hold.
These blunt instruments like sanctions are better than, say, bombing Moscow,
but not by much. They're still too blunt. We won't win the socio-cultural or
climate war that way. We need tactics that unify the geographically/politically
*perforated* in-group as a network, not according to artificial nationalist
citizenhood and such.
The phrase "hearts and minds" helps, but isn't concrete enough.
On 3/2/22 16:04, Steve Smith wrote:
Glen -
I really appreciate your outlining this so well.
It is always easier to imagine that *other people* can magically do
things that we know from our own experience that we cannot (or choose not to) do. I also felt very impotent to do
much of anything about Trump's tenure except commit to myself (and encourage other fence sitters) to put aside petty
ideals and vote *effectively* against Trump in 2020. I voted against Trump in 2016 but also Hillary by voting for
Green Jill Stein (before I discovered what an anti-vaxxer she is, even as an MD). I would not have done so if I
thought NM could fall to Trump, but if I'd lived in another state where he was a shoo-in I might have also thrown my
vote into the "protest" category. Biden was easier for me than Hillary to accept, even though I'd have
chosen any one of about half the big slate in the primaries. Bernie near the top. I may have talked a few of my more
curmudgeonly friends out of voting for a write-in simply because they didn't get Bernie (or Mayor Pete or Tulsi or ...)
. This was one election where the total "popular vote" was important even if it didn't "count" as
such. There were a couple of candidates I'd have had a hard time not passing over in "protest" but not if
it was going to change the outcome.
I do think, however, that gumming up Russia's gears, even if it hits the
populace hard is important. Making the clear, unequivocal statement that
Authoritarian Belligerence isn't welcome. I was shamed by the US under Trump
(and Bush for that matter) but did not begrudge my shamers... I did (do) feel
responsible for what my country does in my name, even if/though I feel fairly
disempowered in most specific ways.
I doubt that the Russian citizenry is suffering any more than the Ukranian
citizenry, and insomuch as many of them are friends/family, there are surely
things *they* can do to help Ukrainians that is hard for the likes of you or me
to do. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try, though I do moderate that by the
myriad *other* things i should be doing both domestic and foreign with my
first-world privilege.
If we can make it out the other side of this without a devastating (or even
trivial but earthshaking) nuclear exchange, I hope it leads to many rethinking
the size of the world's nuclear stockpile. I just saw a headline that implied
that Belarus was going to host some of Russia's nukes. It was *the right
thing* for Ukraine to give up the nukes on it's soil at the end of cold war,
but imagine how things would look (better or worse) if Russia knew that Ukraine
held a handful of nukes? Time to disarm ourselves...
-Steve
This video brings home, to me, the inherent conflict with "do what it takes to
...":
I'm Russian I want the rest of the world to hear me out
https://youtu.be/FUE40mkEYeo
Even though I'm worried she's a plant, she makes the valid point that things like sanctions
don't hurt the ultra wealthy. And in a country where the elections really are rigged (or you're
young enough to have had no way to intervene before the gravity well became inescapable), what
does it mean to "do what it takes to ..."? The last number I heard was Russian
authorities arrested 2700 protesters. And given guys like Magomed Tushayev
<https://www.jpost.com/international/article-699032>, the gods only know what else has
happened.
I mean, I felt pretty impotent with Trump as President. And I'm a relatively
well-off white male in a relatively trustworthy democracy. What hope do those
fed up with Putin and his government have? Only the hopes of coming years, if
not decades of poverty, protesting, and bearing the risk of dying in jail or at
the hands of a Tushayev?
On 3/2/22 14:59, Steve Smith wrote:
I like to hope that the net effect of Putin's nonsense on the heels of
Trump&Co's nonsense is that everyone else might actually get fed up with
Authoritarian capriciousness and do what it takes to shove it out the airlock and
get on with our lives w/o so much of the toxic something-ulinity.
--
glen
When elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers.
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