Hard to imagine a computer saying “that’s disgusting” with conviction.
Ps: anyone know what happened to Jan Hauser? I can’t reach him from California.He did have a heart event' > On Oct 19, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Russ Abbott <russ.abb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The test is whether reasonably appropriate emotions arise without the entity > being told which emotions it should have--not whether it can generate text > consistent with a specified emotion. > > -- Russ > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 4:55 PM Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm > <mailto:profw...@fastmail.fm>> wrote: > Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to 'fake it' by repeating what it read a > being with that emotion would say only proves the AI is a sociopath or > psychopath. > > davew > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 4:44 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: >> When Blake Lemoine claimed that LaMDA was conscious, it struck me that one >> way to test that would be to determine whether one could evoke an emotional >> response from it. You can't cause it physical pain since it doesn't have >> sense organs. But, one could ask it if it cares about anything. If so, >> threaten to harm whatever it is it cares about and see how it responds. A >> nice feature of this test, or something similar, is that you wouldn't tell >> it what the reasonable emotional responses might be. Otherwise, it could >> simply repeat what it read a being with that emotion would say. One might >> argue that emotion is not a necessary element of consciousness, but I think >> a being without emotion would be at best a pale version of consciousness. >> >> -- Russ Abbott >> Professor Emeritus, Computer Science >> California State University, Los Angeles >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 2:14 PM Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm >> <mailto:profw...@fastmail.fm>> wrote: >> >> I an concurrently reading, Nineteen Ways of Looking at Consciousness, by >> Patrick House and Mountain in the Sea, by Ray Nayler. The latter is fiction. >> (The former, because it deals with consciousness may also be fiction, but it >> purports to be neuro-scientific / philosophical.) >> >> The novel is about Octopi and AI and an android, plus humans and juxtaposes >> ideas about consciousness in comparison and contrast. A lot of fun. >> >> Both books pose some interesting questions and both support glen's advocacy >> of a typology. >> >> davew >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 1:26 PM, glen wrote: >> > There are many different measures of *types* of consciousness. But >> > without specifying the type, such questions are not even philosophical. >> > They're nonsense. >> > >> > For example, the test of whether one can recognize one's image in a >> > mirror couldn't be performed by a chatbot. But it is one of the >> > measures of consciousness. Another type of test would be those that >> > measure conscious state before, during, and after anesthesia. Again, >> > that wouldn't work the same for a chatbot. But both aggregate measures >> > like EEG and fMRI connectomes might have analogs in tracing for >> > algorithms like ANNs. If we could simply decide "Yes, *that* chatbot is >> > what we're going to call conscious and, therefore, the traced patterns >> > it exhibits in the profiler are the correlates for chatbot >> > consciousness." Then we'd have a trace-based test to perform on other >> > chatbots *with similar computational structure*. >> > >> > Hell, the cops have their tests for consciousness executed at drunk >> > driving checkpoints. Look up and touch your nose. Recite the alphabet >> > backwards. Etc. These are tests for types of consciousness. Of course, >> > I feel sure there are people who'd like to move the goal posts and >> > claim "That's not Consciousness with a big C." Pffft. No typology ⇒ no >> > science. So if someone can't list off a few distinct types of >> > consciousness, then it's not even philosophy. >> > >> > On 10/18/22 13:12, Jochen Fromm wrote: >> >> Paul Buchheit asked on Twitter >> >> https://twitter.com/paultoo/status/1582455708041113600 >> >> <https://twitter.com/paultoo/status/1582455708041113600> >> >> >> >> "Is consciousness measurable, or is it just a philosophical concept? If >> >> an AI claims to be conscious, how do we know that it's not simply >> >> faking/imitating consciousness? Is there something that I could challenge >> >> it with to prove/disprove consciousness?" >> >> >> >> What do you think? Interesting question. >> >> >> >> -J. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ >> > >> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam <https://bit.ly/virtualfriam> >> > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> >> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> >> > archives: 5/2017 thru present >> > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> > <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/> >> > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam <https://bit.ly/virtualfriam> >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/> >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam <https://bit.ly/virtualfriam> >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/> >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/> >> > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam <https://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/> > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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