The test is whether reasonably appropriate emotions arise without the entity being told which emotions it should have--not whether it can generate text consistent with a specified emotion.
-- Russ On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 4:55 PM Prof David West <[email protected]> wrote: > Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to 'fake it' by repeating what it read > a being with that emotion would say only proves the AI is a sociopath or > psychopath. > > davew > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 4:44 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: > > When Blake Lemoine claimed that LaMDA was conscious, it struck me that > one way to test that would be to determine whether one could evoke an > emotional response from it. You can't cause it physical pain since it > doesn't have sense organs. But, one could ask it if it cares about > anything. If so, threaten to harm whatever it is it cares about and see how > it responds. A nice feature of this test, or something similar, is that you > wouldn't tell it what the reasonable emotional responses might be. > Otherwise, it could simply repeat what it read a being with that emotion > would say. One might argue that emotion is not a necessary element of > consciousness, but I think a being without emotion would be at best a pale > version of consciousness. > > -- Russ Abbott > Professor Emeritus, Computer Science > California State University, Los Angeles > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 2:14 PM Prof David West <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I an concurrently reading, *Nineteen Ways of Looking at Consciousness*, > by Patrick House and *Mountain in the Sea*, by Ray Nayler. The latter is > fiction. (The former, because it deals with consciousness may also be > fiction, but it purports to be neuro-scientific / philosophical.) > > The novel is about Octopi and AI and an android, plus humans and > juxtaposes ideas about consciousness in comparison and contrast. A lot of > fun. > > Both books pose some interesting questions and both support glen's > advocacy of a typology. > > davew > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 1:26 PM, glen wrote: > > There are many different measures of *types* of consciousness. But > > without specifying the type, such questions are not even philosophical. > > They're nonsense. > > > > For example, the test of whether one can recognize one's image in a > > mirror couldn't be performed by a chatbot. But it is one of the > > measures of consciousness. Another type of test would be those that > > measure conscious state before, during, and after anesthesia. Again, > > that wouldn't work the same for a chatbot. But both aggregate measures > > like EEG and fMRI connectomes might have analogs in tracing for > > algorithms like ANNs. If we could simply decide "Yes, *that* chatbot is > > what we're going to call conscious and, therefore, the traced patterns > > it exhibits in the profiler are the correlates for chatbot > > consciousness." Then we'd have a trace-based test to perform on other > > chatbots *with similar computational structure*. > > > > Hell, the cops have their tests for consciousness executed at drunk > > driving checkpoints. Look up and touch your nose. Recite the alphabet > > backwards. Etc. These are tests for types of consciousness. Of course, > > I feel sure there are people who'd like to move the goal posts and > > claim "That's not Consciousness with a big C." Pffft. No typology ⇒ no > > science. So if someone can't list off a few distinct types of > > consciousness, then it's not even philosophy. > > > > On 10/18/22 13:12, Jochen Fromm wrote: > >> Paul Buchheit asked on Twitter > >> https://twitter.com/paultoo/status/1582455708041113600 > >> > >> "Is consciousness measurable, or is it just a philosophical concept? If > an AI claims to be conscious, how do we know that it's not simply > faking/imitating consciousness? Is there something that I could challenge > it with to prove/disprove consciousness?" > >> > >> What do you think? Interesting question. > >> > >> -J. > > > > > > -- > > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ > > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: 5/2017 thru present > > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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