On Oct 18, 2022, at 5:36 PM, Gillian Densmore
<[email protected]> wrote:
*terminator soundtrack here*
On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:55 PM Prof David West
<[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to 'fake it' by repeating what
it read a being with that emotion would say only proves the AI is
a sociopath or psychopath.
davew
On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 4:44 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
When Blake Lemoine claimed that LaMDA was conscious, it struck
me that one way to test that would be to determine whether one
could evoke an emotional response from it. You can't cause it
physical pain since it doesn't have sense organs. But, one could
ask it if it cares about anything. If so, threaten to harm
whatever it is it cares about and see how it responds. A nice
feature of this test, or something similar, is that you wouldn't
tell it what the reasonable emotional responses might be.
Otherwise, it could simply repeat what it read a being with that
emotion would say. One might argue that emotion is not a
necessary element of consciousness, but I think a being without
emotion would be at best a pale version of consciousness.
-- Russ Abbott
Professor Emeritus, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 2:14 PM Prof David West
<[email protected]> wrote:
I an concurrently reading, /Nineteen Ways of Looking at
Consciousness/, by Patrick House and /Mountain in the Sea/,
by Ray Nayler. The latter is fiction. (The former, because
it deals with consciousness may also be fiction, but it
purports to be neuro-scientific / philosophical.)
The novel is about Octopi and AI and an android, plus humans
and juxtaposes ideas about consciousness in comparison and
contrast. A lot of fun.
Both books pose some interesting questions and both support
glen's advocacy of a typology.
davew
On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 1:26 PM, glen wrote:
> There are many different measures of *types* of
consciousness. But
> without specifying the type, such questions are not even
philosophical.
> They're nonsense.
>
> For example, the test of whether one can recognize one's
image in a
> mirror couldn't be performed by a chatbot. But it is one
of the
> measures of consciousness. Another type of test would be
those that
> measure conscious state before, during, and after
anesthesia. Again,
> that wouldn't work the same for a chatbot. But both
aggregate measures
> like EEG and fMRI connectomes might have analogs in
tracing for
> algorithms like ANNs. If we could simply decide "Yes,
*that* chatbot is
> what we're going to call conscious and, therefore, the
traced patterns
> it exhibits in the profiler are the correlates for chatbot
> consciousness." Then we'd have a trace-based test to
perform on other
> chatbots *with similar computational structure*.
>
> Hell, the cops have their tests for consciousness executed
at drunk
> driving checkpoints. Look up and touch your nose. Recite
the alphabet
> backwards. Etc. These are tests for types of
consciousness. Of course,
> I feel sure there are people who'd like to move the goal
posts and
> claim "That's not Consciousness with a big C." Pffft. No
typology ⇒ no
> science. So if someone can't list off a few distinct types of
> consciousness, then it's not even philosophy.
>
> On 10/18/22 13:12, Jochen Fromm wrote:
>> Paul Buchheit asked on Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/paultoo/status/1582455708041113600
>>
>> "Is consciousness measurable, or is it just a
philosophical concept? If an AI claims to be conscious, how
do we know that it's not simply faking/imitating
consciousness? Is there something that I could challenge it
with to prove/disprove consciousness?"
>>
>> What do you think? Interesting question.
>>
>> -J.
>
>
> --
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>
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