LLM or stable diffusion training will do the same thing, taken to the extreme.
From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of glen <geprope...@gmail.com> Date: Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 9:22 AM To: friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Reading I actually land almost exactly opposite to Dave. Descent into authoritarianism is *caused* by reading and the lack of reading facilitates egalitarianism. That's an overstatement, of course. But Dave did it first. 8^D As Marcus (unintentionally?) implies, inductive learning relies fundamentally on this sequential beatdown ... a firehose (or maddening drip, drip, drip) of entrainment. What saves us from the entrainment is parallelism (?) ... parallelity (?) ... interruptibility (?). When/if I do read books, I read them in parallel. It used to be a steady stream of 1 fiction and 1 non-fiction, where fiction was reserved for evening when my mind goes numb and it doesn't matter that much if I habitually read entire pages without comprehending them. Non-fiction in taxis, on planes, at lunch, focused efforts, etc. And I simply can't overemphasize the fecundity of doing that. In every case, the 2 books fed on each other, cross-pollinated. The same is now true with my not-reading reading. I'll stop in the middle of an essay on anarchism to dig back through a podcast on a Q anon meme. Or stop in a neuroscience article and go look up some Jungian archetype I thought I smelled from some sci-fi show. Etc. This world-integrating task switching inoculates (I claim) against both lefty and righty authoritarianism. Whereas the more time you spend consuming 1 narrative (e.g. all the Curtis Yarvin material or whatever), you begin to think in terms of that 1 narrative. True, for voracious readers who can consume Ulysses in an evening, there's little risk of entrainment. But for us rabble with low cognitive power, task-switching is better than the sequential beatdown. On 11/7/24 09:00, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Gemini, Copilot, and Chatgpt all give responses like this: > > < It’s hard to pinpoint an exact number, but the data likely encompasses the > equivalent of hundreds of thousands to millions of books' worth of text. This > figure includes a mixture of genres, lengths, and types of writing, from > novels and technical manuals to academic articles and historical documents. > The aim was to capture a broad and varied perspective, rather than > comprehensive coverage of any single source type or genre. > > > *From: *Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Prof David West > <profw...@fastmail.fm> > *Date: *Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 7:55 AM > *To: *friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject: *[FRIAM] Reading > > several people made comments about people not reading much and glen mentioned > he has read maybe 2 books this year. This triggered me, a lifelong addicted > bibliophile. > > I started reading (comic books with/Donald Duck in Mathemagic Land/ and > heroes like Lex Luthor) a couple of hears before starting school. I maxed out > my Weekly Reader Book Club order every week during grade school. Weekly trips > to neighborhood book store for 20-25 cent paperbacks (mostly science fiction, > but a hell of a lot of non-fiction popular science books as well). A simple > mention in a TV show, /Outer Limit/s, prompted a library trip to check out > and read Kant's /Critique of Pure Reason/, My freshman year at Macalester > required buying and reading over forty books—mostly monographs, not > textbooks. I have read just over 10,000 books in my lifetime (a significant > percentage being fiction—mysteries and science fiction). Until the past > decade, I had subscribed to at least two local papers and one national paper. > Before they descended to junk, read Newsweek and Time every week and > subscribed to at least six-seven different periodicals (a lot of them > computer journals). When I > encountered a mention of Graeber, I bought and read one, then all, of his > books (/Dawn of Everything /is, IMO, a really important book with insights > that could inform much of the socio-political discussion on this list). > Whenever anyone on this list mentions a book, I am on Amazon with seconds > ordering it. When I attended FRIAM at St. John's, I visited the bookstore's > new books table and always left with 3-8 books; every week. > > When speaking at professional conferences I always ask how many people have > read 1-2 computer books this year. and most of the audience raises their > hand. How many have read one book other than a computer book this year—less > than half the audience. How many a fiction book—four or five people. > > Alan Kay once said, /"If you do not read for pleasure, you cannot read for > purpose."/ An exaggeration perhaps, but a valid observation. > > My last three or four years teaching, I was not allowed to mandate any books > for any class. I could recommend one text book. > > The year i spent teaching high school in Las Vegas, NV; not one student, > outside of 'honors/AP' courses had read even one book in their entire 4-year > high school career. > > Books are not the only medium of course, but I am deeply suspicious of the > value of much of what is consumed from on-line and mass media sources. > > I would attribute any descent into authoritarianism, any demise of social > order, and any succumbing to existential threats on humanity to nothing more > than the massive ignorance of the vast majority of people who do not read. > > davew > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2024, at 8:29 AM, glen wrote: > >> I would guess the majority of those who voted for Harris also don't > >> read. Or, maybe it's better to say they don't read the same way we used > >> to read: https://www.the-hinternet.com/p/the-future-of-reading >> <https://www.the-hinternet.com/p/the-future-of-reading> >> <https://www.the-hinternet.com/p/the-future-of-reading >> <https://www.the-hinternet.com/p/the-future-of-reading>> > >> > >> I'll admit that I rarely read books anymore. I think I've read 2 this > >> year. The overwhelming majority of my reading is journal, magazine, and > >> news articles. And I spend a LOT of time listening to podcasts and > >> video essays. Granted, my only social media is Mastodon. Though I do > >> try to post to Instagram sporadically. I just have no idea why serious > >> people still use eX-Twitter. I mean, WTF? > >> > >> All this stuff plays an important role in "how democracies die". And my > >> guess is we'll learn less from the deep thinking book writers or > >> essayists and more from attempts at network analysis across media like > >> TikTok, Telegram, Signal, Discord, & SimpleX. There was this (good) > >> article on Graeber in the Guardian: > >> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/nov/07/david-graeber-optimistic-anarchist-rebecca-solnit >> >> <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/nov/07/david-graeber-optimistic-anarchist-rebecca-solnit> >> >> <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/nov/07/david-graeber-optimistic-anarchist-rebecca-solnit >> >> <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/nov/07/david-graeber-optimistic-anarchist-rebecca-solnit>>. > >> And despite it tweaking my old philia, it just reads so empty to me > >> now. A stroll through .5TB of leaked chat logs is much more exciting > >> these days > >> (https://ddosecrets.com/article/paramilitary-election-interference >> <https://ddosecrets.com/article/paramilitary-election-interference >> <https://ddosecrets.com/article/paramilitary-election-interference>>). > >> > >> On 11/7/24 02:16, Sarbajit Roy wrote: > >>> "> ..,The people who voted for him probably do not read Paxton, Arendt or >>> Levitsky and Ziblat ..." > >>> The people who voted for him don't read... > >>> > >>> We have a similar problem in India, the great semi-literate masses have >>> been handed cheap smartp[hiones with cheap data plans so they are connected >>> 24x7 to the Matrix. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 2:04 PM Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net >>> <mailto:j...@cas-group.net <mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> >>> <mailto:j...@cas-group.net <mailto:j...@cas-group.net >>> <mailto:j...@cas-group.net>>>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I woke up today and saw the horrific news on TV that Trump has won again. >>> It is incredibly bad on many levels. It is bad for the environment. The >>> world will not be able to stop global warming without the U.S. It is bad >>> for Ukraine as well. To me it feels like the end of civilization and >>> democracy. The people who voted for him probably do not read Paxton, Arendt >>> or Levitsky and Ziblatt. Or do not care. > >>> https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/562246/how-democracies-die-by-steven-levitsky-and-daniel-ziblatt/ >>> >>> <https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/562246/how-democracies-die-by-steven-levitsky-and-daniel-ziblatt/> >>> >>> <https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/562246/how-democracies-die-by-steven-levitsky-and-daniel-ziblatt/ >>> >>> <https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/562246/how-democracies-die-by-steven-levitsky-and-daniel-ziblatt/>> >>> >>> <https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/562246/how-democracies-die-by-steven-levitsky-and-daniel-ziblatt/ >>> >>> <https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/562246/how-democracies-die-by-steven-levitsky-and-daniel-ziblatt/ >>> >>> <https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/562246/how-democracies-die-by-steven-levitsky-and-daniel-ziblatt/>>> > >>> > >>> I was wondering how this is possible. If we define populism as an ideology >>> that presents "the people" as a morally good force and contrasts them >>> against "the elite", who are portrayed as corrupt and self-serving then >>> this could be a reason why Trump is so successful. He is good at populism >>> because he is corrupt and self-serving himself, and uses projection to >>> accuse others. > >>> > >>> https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308163/what-is-populism-by-muller-jan-werner/9780141987378 >>> >>> <https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308163/what-is-populism-by-muller-jan-werner/9780141987378> >>> >>> <https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308163/what-is-populism-by-muller-jan-werner/9780141987378 >>> >>> <https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308163/what-is-populism-by-muller-jan-werner/9780141987378>> >>> >>> <https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308163/what-is-populism-by-muller-jan-werner/9780141987378 >>> >>> <https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308163/what-is-populism-by-muller-jan-werner/9780141987378 >>> >>> <https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308163/what-is-populism-by-muller-jan-werner/9780141987378>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> What do you think? Why have people voted for him although they know what >>> kind of person he his? Are we doomed now? -- ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam <https://bit.ly/virtualfriam> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
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