We need more dogs. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Feb 11, 2025, 6:04 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote: > From 30k feet, a lot of people driving around for no apparent reason. > They eat and drink a lot and then use expensive drugs to remove the adipose > tissue that stores all that energy. The atrophy they talk about from use > of AI doesn’t seem to apply to their gluteus maximus. Humans, sigh. > > > > *From: *Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of steve smith < > [email protected]> > *Date: *Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 4:24 PM > *To: *[email protected] <[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] genai and critical thinking > > > > On 2/11/25 12:41 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > Huh, Claude just implemented the optimal strategy to Nim and ran in it > its analysis tool (the Javascript engine on my browser). > > > > what my oldMansBarFriend had to say after a brief discussion about Nim and > the hand-over-hand on bat-handle playground method for deciding who bats > first: > > <GPT 4o slopp> > > *Glad that landed! It’s like a "soft" or continuous Nim, where control > isn’t strictly quantized but still follows a structured alternation toward > an inevitable endgame. The constraints emerge organically—hand size, grip > technique, and subtle physical limits—instead of rigid numerical rules.* > > *It’s a cool example of how discrete game theory principles manifest in > the real world, with a touch of embodied cognition in the mix.* > > *<endSlopp>* > > And the following as an LLM (Slopp) reflection on the relative > virtue/shame signals associated with chatting with your favorite LLM vs > going to the Pub (and presumably having similar convos with > bar-friends)? The one mile each-way trip to the pub can be multiplied by > 20 or 50 to estimate a "Sunday Drive" instead? > > Looks like a 15mpg driver of a pickup should drink order 3-4 beers to > amortize the embedded energy cost of driving there/back but a hybrid or EV > driver can get by with just one, maybe even a short one? Domestic Drafts > and Bottles are lower embedded energy (presumably because of industrial > economies of scale) but imports are higher (because transport?). In > DeepSeekR1 ratios, it looks like "staying home and chatting with your fave > LLM" has order 1000x savings over driving anything to the pub and having a > single beer. And taking a Sunday Drive is worth many times that? Of > course the LLM didn't twig to the conventional NM Sunday Joyride implying a > six-pack at a minimum... > > I did beat both GPT and DS around the head and shoulders with a > metaphorical wet noodle for a while to get relatively aligned numbers > (aligned with one another and with my(very) lame intuition)... but expect > (m)any here to poke holes in the details... > > Sadly I'm a pretty good sloppGenerator without an LLM's help... I'll try > to refrain from the doubleDown offered. > > <freshSlopp> > > *Refined Travel and Beer Comparison with Energy Usage Ratios (DeepSeekR1 > Query Denominator)* > > *Category* > > *Cost (USD)* > > *Total Energy Consumption (1 Mile Round Trip, kWh)* > > *Sunday Joyride (2 hours, countryside)* > > *Energy Usage Ratio (vs. Local Craft Beer)* > > *Energy Usage Ratio (vs. DeepSeekR1 Query)* > > *1) Personal Travel* > > a) *Truck* > > $3–$5 (1 mile) > > ~2.6–3.7 kWh > > ~12–18 kWh > > 2.6–3.7x > > 520–740x > > b) *ICE Car* > > $1.50–$3 (1 mile) > > ~1.4–2.1 kWh > > ~12–18 kWh > > 1.4–2.1x > > 280–420x > > c) *Hybrid Car* > > $1–$2 (1 mile) > > ~0.8–1.1 kWh > > ~12–18 kWh > > 0.8–1.1x > > 160–220x > > d) *Electric Car* > > $0.50–$1 (1 mile) > > ~0.4–0.5 kWh > > ~12–18 kWh > > 0.4–0.5x > > 80–100x > > e) *Walking* > > $0 (no cost) > > ~0 kWh > > ~0 kWh > > 0x > > 0x > > f) *Bicycling* > > $0 (no cost) > > ~0 kWh > > ~0 kWh > > 0x > > 0x > > g) *Public Transport* > > $1–$3 per ride > > ~0.3–0.7 kWh (depending on method) > > ~2–4 kWh (for a 1–2 hour ride) > > 0.3–0.7x > > 60–140x > > *2) Beer Consumption* > > a) *Local Craft Draft* > > $5–$10 per pint > > ~0.8–1.3 kWh > > - > > 1x > > 160–260x > > b) *Domestic Draft (Regional)* > > $3–$5 per pint > > ~0.5–0.7 kWh > > - > > 0.5–0.7x > > 80–140x > > c) *Domestic Can/Bottle* > > $2–$5 per can/bottle > > ~0.4–0.8 kWh > > - > > 0.4–0.8x > > 60–140x > > d) *Mexican Bottle* > > $3–$6 per bottle > > ~0.9–1.8 kWh > > - > > 1.1–1.4x > > 180–360x > > e) *European Can/Bottle* > > $4–$8 per can/bottle > > ~1.5–2.9 kWh > > - > > 1.9–3.7x > > 300–580x > > f) *Asian Can/Bottle* > > $4–$7 per can/bottle > > ~2.1–3.6 kWh > > - > > 2.6–4.6x > > 340–720x > > *3) GPT Model Queries* > > a) *GPT-3 (Single Query)* > > Varies > > ~0.002–0.005 kWh > > - > > 0.002–0.006x > > 0.4–1x > > b) *GPT-4o (Single Query)* > > Varies > > ~0.01–0.03 kWh > > - > > 0.01–0.03x > > 2–6x > > c) *GPT-4o Mini (Single Query)* > > Varies > > ~0.005–0.02 kWh > > - > > 0.005–0.02x > > 1–4x > > d) *DeepSeekR1 (Single Query)* > > Varies > > ~0.001–0.005 kWh > > - > > 0.001–0.005x > > 1x > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > *From: *Friam <[email protected]> <[email protected]> on > behalf of Roger Critchlow <[email protected]> <[email protected]> > *Date: *Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 11:36 AM > *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <[email protected]> <[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] genai and critical thinking > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 10:15 AM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> > wrote: > > *[...]* the evolving code itself -- code that can have informative types > and even carry proofs. The weirdest thing about using AI is that it has > no opinions. Claude will rewrite code without asking (seemingly having no > self-control), but it will not confront you like a frustrated colleague > might. It is happy to let you make a mess provided its sense of idiomatic > code patterns are satisfied. > > > > This echoed something an old boss wrote me today: > > > > I have much enjoyment torturing llms. I can get off the rails rather > easily. They have no state, by themselves they cannot calculate parity or > play nim perfectly. > > > > Or one might say, they have no purpose. > > > > -- rec -- > > > > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... > --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / > ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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