On Friday, 19 December 2014 19:06:42 UTC, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
>
> Dima Pasechnik wrote: 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, 17 December 2014 16:00:03 UTC, Ralf Hemmecke wrote: 
> > > 
> > > >> Dima, in fact, it's not soooo easy with (La)TeX. It depends on how 
> > > >> you see it. One way is that TeX (the program) is a compiler that 
> > > >> translates the sources (i.e. .tex, .sty, and .bib, ... files -- 
> > > >> which can count as the program sources since TeX is a programming 
> > > >> language). Then the .dvi or .pdf file would be considered as the 
> > > >> compiled form of the sources. With this point of view, Waldek is 
> > > >> right. 
> > > > 
> > > > I don't get your point. There is no problem like this with GPL, and 
> I 
> > > > don't know why this was mentioned in the 1st place... Surely you can 
> > > > put out a software with a license saying that by using it you sell 
> > > > yourself into slavery, but this does not mean that something is 
> wrong 
> > > > with GPL... 
> > > 
> > > I never said that something is wrong with GPL. Quite the contrary. I'd 
> > > like to have GPL for FriCAS. 
> > > 
> > > >> But I don't really think that most people thing that way. 
> > > >> Unfortunately, there is no clear statement from the FSF about this. 
> > > 
> > > >> But also this is somehow a non-issue. If my published paper would 
> > > >> be GPL then I have to provide the .tex and .sty files. So what? 
> > > 
> > > > Why is that even mentioned? There are no GPL-licensed programs that 
> > > > tell you anything about copyright of the data you process with them. 
> > > 
> > > Although, I somehow see it like you, it is not that easy with (La)TeX. 
> > > 
> > > Let's try to make to other viewpoint clearer. There is TP (TeX the 
> > > program, i.e. the program that translates .tex+.sty into .dvi) and 
> there 
> > > is TL (the TeX language). All my .tex and .sty files are written in 
> the 
> > > TL. The TL is a programming language. TP is the compiler that 
> translates 
> > > my program (.tex + .sty) into binary form (.dvi). Now according to 
> GPL, 
> > > that would probably mean that if one .sty file is under GPL, the whole 
> > > .dvi is under GPL, so also all the respective .tex files that are used 
> > > to produce this .dvi are under GPL. 
> > > 
> > 
> > Your C, etc., programs also use *.h files, which might be under GPL 
> (e.g. 
> > on Linux lots of them are). 
> > This does not automatically put your own C program under GPL. 
> > Cf e.g. http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0301.1/0362.html 
> > 
> > Certainly, (La)TeX .sty files are macro files, just like .h files are. 
> > So the fear that GPLed .sty files can infect, license-wise, 
> > your own TeX files is unfounded. 
>
> Have you read the link you provide?  Key words are 'automatically' 
> and 'substantial'.  You can not assume that including GPL '.h' file 
> will automatically bring your program under GPL.  But as well 
> you can not assume that it will not.  


sure: they talk about copying parts of headers into your source, not
including them using C's #include or its equivalent.
It goes without saying that #include can include GPL'ed headers
in no-GPL code.

 

> They write: 'It would take         
> a substantial amount of code (coming from inline functions or macros       
>   
> with substantial bodies) to do that'.  But in other context it 
> turned out that 'substantial' can be as little as 10 lines. 
> Header files are special: since normally they specify interface 
> to a library I read opinions that using _declarations_ from 
> header files is just fair use.  So if header contains no 
> executable code and no comments, then copyright on that 
> header is meaningless. 
>
> Also, look at Bison: FSF claims that if you use GML feature 
> than Bison output falls under GPL.   
>
 
IMHO this is no longer the case:
http://www.gnu.org/software/bison/manual/html_node/Conditions.html

 

> And it seems that 
> they do not make such claim in non-GML output only 
> because there are several competing programs, none 
> with such restriction.  To make it clearer: Bison output 
> essentially concatenates tables derived from your code 
> with "skeleton" code from Bison.  This could be argued 
> to be "mere aggregation", but after compilation you 
> can not separate tables from what came from "skeleton" 
> and linking clause of GPL applies. 
>
> The whole disscussion started with 'fricasmath.sty' which is 
> rather small file.  It is quite possible that a court would 
> decide that 'fricasmath.sty' contains too little copywritable 
> material to count.  But in such case why bother with special 
> license?  So discussing license we should assume that it 
> is 'substantial'.  Lawyers may argue that for one reason or 
> another 'fricasmath.sty' affect (or not) status of document 
> using it.  But the point is that we have no _clear_ indication 
> that it will not.  Normally free projects use permissive 
> licenses in such case to avoid any doubts. 
>
>
> -- 
>                               Waldek Hebisch 
> [email protected] <javascript:> 
>

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