On 30 December 2014 at 13:23, Raymond Rogers <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 12/29/2014 04:05 PM, Bill Page wrote: > > Axiom - One developer - when he goes Axiom goes. > > I think that you are probably right here that "when he goes the > [original] Axiom project goes". I am not aware of anyone motivated to > continue the work in the direction that Tim Daly has taken it. > > I'm afraid you are right. I think Tim's goal is absolutely the correct > thing (I hate to see knowledge evaporate) but he is trying a "bottom up" > approach to reverse engineer it. Every time I read about his progress; > the picture of Atlas holding up the world comes to mind. An impossible > goal for a mere human like me. > Remember Principia Mathematica by Whitehead and Russle; ...
Yes, provably impossible even in principle. > I think an alternative is to try to build _automatic_ translators that > convert the base code to mathematical formulation recognizable as > mathematics. I realize that present mathematical notation is not > perfect; but is usable because of 3,000 years of development. Though, > in all honesty, I am speaking from ignorance. I am inclined more to agree with Waldek here that the SPAD language is already in principle sufficient as a mathematical notation - for someone sufficiently motivated to actually want to do mathematics this way. Translating from one notation to another is only a matter of temporary convenience. Eventually one needs to become fluent in the language of implementation. To the extent that this remains uncomfortable, this is reason and motivation to change the language in fundamental ways - not just as the level of the notation. To some extent in systems like Axiom this can be accomplished through (re-)design of the underlying libraries. > > ...As I see it Axiom as a concept is still > fundamentally a research project - as is the entire field of computer > algebra as a whole. The most that software engineering can offer is > minor improvements in technique. > > Are you thinking of mathematics or programming? Mathematical programming :) > I would think a mathematical basis is definitely > not passé and should be the real goal. I think of applications of mathematical category theory to computer algebra systems in this context. > I really look forward to the day that "programming" is > automated and people will no longer be stuck digging in the > mines trying to create or find a few gems. > I doubt that programming can ever be automated but well designed systems and languages can make it easier and more productive. I think that is that kind of evolution of programming that we are seeing in the current generation. > Do you mean some kind of "reverse engineering"? I think you are right that > literate programming methodologies do not make this any easier. Once I > thought that a user supported and maintained web site (wiki) might be an > answer to this. Although the FriCAS project still supports the wiki that > started in the early days of the original Axiom project, I would say that it > also counts as a (mostly) failed experiment. > > Please don't! The results apparently haven't been extensive but I would > think that that is some form of "marketing" :) No, I definitely never thought of the axiom-wiki as a form or marketing. The emphasis was supposed to be on "collaboration" - like a Wikipedia for computer algebra. > People sometime make fun of marketing and merchants; but the truth > is they play an essential role in the distribution of goods, knowledge, > services and human advancement. Sorry, I still think of it as a kind of "current evil". My ideal is more along the lines of a "Star Trek economy". > I don't have an "answer" but what comes to mind is direct linkages to and > from sites like Wikipedia, PlanetMath, or proofwiki.org. > Yes, I like the fact that the axiom-wiki contains many such likes to other sources. I wish we had more. Regards, Bill Page. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "FriCAS - computer algebra system" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/fricas-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
