If anyone's loud and shrill it's the "It's a disaster and we have to implement Kyoto NOW, you <insert expletive>!" crowd.
I will agree that the debate has degenerated into namecalling, as opposed to trying to rationally address the issues. 1: Is the world warming? Seems to be true. 2: Is it man-made? Perhaps, but there's no doubt that at least one of our actions, releasing CO2 into the atmosphere, tends to cause it, so we are probably accelerating any natural effect in 1 above. 3: Is this a bad thing? The wailing of "Planet In Peril", "An Inconvenient Truth", and the other propaganda pieces of the lefty-infotainment crowd notwithstanding, I think there hasn't been really serious discussion of this. 4: If it IS bad, where on the list of problems facing the human race is it? IMNSHO, radical Islamism (to include their birthrates); the lack of potable water; and a growing centralization of power in a transnational elite that are beholden to no-one but themselves, with the attendant widening of the gulf between haves and have-nots; are all bigger problems than even the direst predictions if a 5 Celsius rise were to occur. The latter will be exacerbated by all the remedies for Climate Change that are currently on the table, by empowering transnational, unelected, bureaucrats. 5: If it is important to fix, how best to do it? IMNSHO all the current proposals won't reduce the total CO2 emissions one iota, and will increase the other harmful emissions that have been reduced in the industrialized nations, as industrial production is shifted to places that either aren't party to the agreements (India and China) or where the rule of law is easily subverted (Brazil etc.). So, while the debate has degenerated into screeching by religious nuts of the Gaianist or "Manifest Destiny" persuasion at each other about item 1 and 2; the real issues that need to be debated are in 3-5, and I see precious little discussion of them. Color me a "denier" if you wish, but you'd be wrong. I'm a pragmatist who doesn't think telling the tide not to come in is likely to be successful. To keep this on topic: I think that "Climate Change" is the least important reason to move off of oil. I believe the #1 problem in the world is the enrichment of religious lunatics who want to cause the arrival of the 12th Imam or subjugate the whole world to Allah by shifting wealth from the industrialized nations to the OPEC ones. That's a SECURITY problem, and one we should have addressed in the 80s, instead of creating the monster of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. >-----Original Message----- >From: Dan Kaminsky [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:19 PM >To: Alex Eckelberry >Cc: Tomas L. Byrnes; Gadi Evron; funsec >Subject: Re: [funsec] global warming is b/s? nice hatchet job > >*shrugs* The deniers are loud. The rest of us see the argument as >pointless as whether Palin is competent or not, i.e. the point is the >argument itself. > > > >On Jul 12, 2009, at 12:13 PM, "Alex Eckelberry" <al...@sunbelt- >software.com > > wrote: > >> I am perhaps in the minority on this list in that I actually believe >> in >> global climate change/warming. That's not to say that I am not aware >> of (and concerned about) the other agendas of some of the >> environmental >> groups out there (population control, etc.). >> >> However, not worth getting into a debate about it -- there's plenty of >> that going on out there. >> >> But I'm going to sit on the sidelines and see if this thread beats out >> either guns or twitter in posts. Will be interesting to watch. >> >> >> Alex >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Tomas L. Byrnes >> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:54 PM >> To: Gadi Evron; funsec >> Subject: Re: [funsec] global warming is b/s? nice hatchet job >> >> The water temp here in San Diego remains under 68F, and last anyone >> checked, we're about where we were when Columbus sailed for the new >> world, which is when the cooling towards the "little ice age" started. >> Personally, I'd like a planet more along the lines of the Cambrian >> climate. Then most people wouldn't live in cold places where fruits >> and >> vegetables don't grow. >> >> Take a look in the mirror, except for Neanderthal half breeds like >> Gadi >> and myself, there's not enough hair on that body to stay warm anywhere >> except the tropics. >> >> However, for SECURITY reasons, we need to stop using OIL, because the >> biggest threat to civilization are the people it enriches. >> >> Besides, for most types of driving, electric motors are faster, thanks >> to having full torque @ 0 RPM and a flat curve. >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:funsec- >>> [email protected]] >>> On Behalf Of Gadi Evron >>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:02 AM >>> To: funsec >>> Subject: [funsec] global warming is b/s? nice hatchet job >>> >>> wow, just... wow. Even if this is real it is a master-piece of how to >>> discredit, write fake and unsubstantiated: >>> >>> >http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/162241/17_200_Scientists_Dispute_ >> G >>> lobal_Warming >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gadi Evron, >>> [email protected]. >>> >>> Blog: http://gevron.livejournal.com/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> debate mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/debate >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. >>> https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec >>> Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. >> https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec >> Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. >> https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec >> Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list. _______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
