http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income
This provides some info. How to fund is treated in greater detail toward the end of the article. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles Brass Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:47 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] Manufacturing's Fall Arthur We both agree that these are thorny issues to consider. Where would the money come from to provide a guaranteed income? Currently money is the medium used to facilitate exchange. If there is no exchange, where does the money come from and what makes us believe it is valuable? -- Charles Brass mobile 0409 198 738 Quoting Arthur Cordell <[email protected]>: > > How far do we go in monetizing services? Of course there is no end of work > to be done in society. Years ago much work was done for love or obligation > or just because it was there to be done. Over the years we have brought > much of this work into the economy and called it job creation. This is a > thorny area to discuss, but consider what happens to our national accounts > when someone who once was a "stay at home mom" gets a job and contracts with > a nanny, day care, maids, cleaning services, etc. GDP rises and the shape > and nature of society changes. Elders who were cared for at home are now in > "senior's residences" etc. GDP is boosted once again. > > This is what a complex market society looks like. Sell one's talents in the > workplace and use the money to buy a host of work that would otherwise have > been done by the individual. It is a "win win" outcome. But.....when > everything has a price something intangible is lost. > > Not saying to go back to "barefoot in the kitchen" but am saying that we > should remember that society is about balance. Not all work has to be done > via a transaction. > > A guaranteed annual income might allow for a lot of work to be done: without > having to price each transaction (and without having to tax these > transactions) > > Arthur > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles Brass > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 6:44 PM > To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Manufacturing's Fall > > Arthur > > To suggest that people might no longer be needed as workers is to > fundamentally > confuse 'work' with 'job'. There is now, and always has been, more work to > be > done than we have people capable of doing it. What we might be facing is a > bit > of a crisis of knowing how to convert some of that work into a job (for > which > someone earns income) but if there is one thing the past hundred or so years > has taught us it is that humans are endlessly capable of creating what we > want. > > > A hundred years ago, economics had no way of valuing services, now the > service > economy is much bigger than the physical economy. So long as we have an > exchange based economy, we will find a way to value that exchange and that > will > put plenty of spending money in people's hands. > > > -- > Charles Brass > mobile 0409 198 738 > > > Quoting Arthur Cordell <[email protected]>: > > > Maybe the future is less about new jobs but more about some form of > > guaranteed annual income. > > > > > > > > Sure there will be new jobs and people will fill them. But maybe there > are > > a host of people who are not needed in the economy as producers but are > > needed as consumers. > > > > > > > > How do we get income to people who are no longer needed as workers? How > do > > we do this and still maintain the dignity of the individual? > > > > > > > > Arthur > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith Hudson > > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:47 AM > > To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Manufacturing's Fall > > > > > > > > The drift of Louis Uchitelle's article is utterly wrong. It's also > > ridiculous to say, as Thea Lea says at the end, that you can't rebuild the > > middle class without manufacturing. > > > > Manufacturing can look after itself -- as and when it's required by the > > economy. If America or Western Europe don't do it, then the Chinese will > -- > > and supply the products to us cheaper than we can do. Why should > > industrialization be extended in the advanced countries any more than it > has > > to? > > > > What's much more important is an altogether radicalized educational system > > for the increasingly specialized jobs of tomorrow's world. In 1700 in the > > UK, when parents had to pay for schooling for their children, literacy was > > at 65%. It's only 75% now despite our state school system and enforced > > attendance. I don't suppose the literacy rate in the US is any better. The > > whole system needs a total overhaul -- unless we want the Chinese to beat > at > > that, too. > > > > Keith Hudson > > > > . > > > > At 09:45 21/07/2009 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA09E8.05C9BBD0" > > Content-Language: en-us > > > > July 21, 2009 NY Times > > > > > > Obamas Strategy to Reverse Manufacturings Fall > > > > > > > > > > By LOUIS > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/u/louis_uchitell > > e/index.html?inline=nyt-per> UCHITELLE > > > > If the Obama administration has a strategy for reviving manufacturing, > > Douglas Bartlett would like to know what it is. > > > > Buffeted by foreign competition, Mr. Bartlett recently closed his printed > > circuit board factory, founded 57 years ago by his father, and laid off > the > > remaining 87 workers. Last week, he auctioned off the machinery, and soon > he > > will raze the factory itself in Cary, Ill. > > > > > > > > The property taxes are no longer affordable,Mr. Bartlett said glumly, so I > > am going to tear down the building and sit on the land, and hopefully sell > > it after the recession > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/r/recession_an > > d_depression/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier> when land prices hopefully > > rise. > > > > > > > > Though manufacturing has long been in decline, the loss of factory jobs > has > > been especially brutal of late, with nearly two million disappearing since > > the recession began in December 2007. Even a few chief executives, heading > > companies that have shifted plenty of production abroad, are beginning to > > express alarm. > > > > > > > > We must make a serious commitment to manufacturing and exports. This is a > > national imperative,Jeffrey > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/i/jeffrey_r_imme > > lt/index.html?inline=nyt-per> R. Immelt, chairman and chief executive of > > General > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/general_electric_comp > > any/index.html?inline=nyt-org> Electric, said in a speech last month, > while > > acknowledging that G.E. was enriched by its overseas operations too. > > > > > > > > President > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/i > > ndex.html?inline=nyt-per> Obama, agreeing in effect, has declared, The > > fight for American manufacturing is the fight for Americas future. > > > > > > > > The United States ranks behind every industrial nation except France in > the > > percentage of overall economic activity devoted to manufacturing 13.9 > > percent, the World > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/w/world_b > > ank/index.html?inline=nyt-org> Bank reports, down 4 percentage points in > a > > decade. The 19-month-old recession has contributed noticeably to this > > decline. Industrial production has fallen 17.3 percent, the sharpest drop > > during a recession since the 1930s. > > > > > > > > So far, however, Mr. Obamas administration has not come up with a formal > > plan to address the rapid decline. Instead, it has pursued ad hoc > > initiatives bailing out General > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/general_motors_corpor > > ation/index.html?inline=nyt-org> Motors and Chrysler > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/chrysler_llc/index.ht > > ml?inline=nyt-org> , for example, and pushing green energy by supporting > the > > manufacture of items like wind > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/w/wind_power/i > > ndex.html?inline=nyt-classifier> turbines and solar panels. > > > > > > > > We want to make sure that we grow a manufacturing base for renewable > > energy,said Matthew Rogers, a senior adviser in the Energy Department, > > explaining that this is being accomplished in part by accelerating loan > > guarantees from zeroin the Bush years. > > > > > > > > Xunming Deng, a physicist and the chairman of the Xunlight Corporation, > sees > > himself as a beneficiary of what he describes as the Obama administrations > > more flexible loan guarantees. His factory in Toledo, Ohio, with 100 > > employees, is in the early stages of making solar panels, and Dr. Deng is > > already planning to quadruple the plants size. He has applied to the > Energy > > Department for a $120 million loan guarantee. If he gets it, he will not > > have to pay the hefty fees charged for loan guarantees before Mr. Obama > took > > office. > > > > > > > > Getting rid of that fee makes the loan guarantee very attractive and very > > helpful,Dr. Deng said. We cant grow as fast without it. > > > > > > > > Beyond energy, the administrations approach gradually outlines the > elements > > of a manufacturing policy what Lawrence > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/lawrence_h_sum > > mers/index.html?inline=nyt-per> H. Summers, director of the National > > Economic Council, described as a number of things to support > manufacturing. > > > > The auto bailout, for all its improvisations, served notice that the > > administration would probably rescue any giant manufacturer it deemed too > > big (or too iconic) to fail, and would help the suppliers of failing > giants > > transition to other industries. > > > > > > > > The Buy America clause in the stimulus > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/u/united_state > > s_economy/economic_stimulus/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier> package > > pointedly favors the purchase of American-made goods for infrastructure > > projects. The Commerce Department is adding $100 million, more than double > > the current outlay, to a program that helps American manufacturers operate > > more effectively. And trade agreements negotiated by the Bush > administration > > agreements that would make the United States more open to imported > > manufactured goods have been allowed to languish in Congress. > > > > The administrations policy is evolving in the right direction,said > > Representative Sander M. Levin, Democrat of Michigan, who is particularly > > concerned about auto imports. I think they have essentially shed the > > political chains that prevented government from having a role in > > manufacturing. They are working their way toward what makes sense. > > > > Not everyone agrees. > > > > > > > > Bush and Obama,Mr. Bartlett said scornfully, one is as bad as the other in > > terms of manufacturing policy. > > > > > > > > He acknowledged that the recession was the immediate reason for the demise > > of his familys business. But what really did it in, he said in an > interview, > > was the competition from less expensive Chinese circuit boards less > > expensive, he argued, because the Chinese undervalue their currency and > this > > administration, like the ones before it, lets them get away with it. > > > > > > > > Our orders went from $8 million at an annual rate to $4 million, which was > > not enough to make money,he said. > > > > > > > > Mr. Bartlett, who is co-chairman of an organization called the Fair > Currency > > Coalition, said that Chinese competitors charged only $1 for each printed > > circuit board sold in this country, while he charged $1.40. Like many > > economists and government officials, he says he believes the Chinese > > currency is artificially undervalued. As a countermeasure, he said the > Obama > > administration should impose a 40 percent tariff on imported Chinese > goods. > > > > > > > > I can compete against Chinese entrepreneurs, and Chinese labor cost is not > > that big a factor,he said, but I cannot compete against the Chinese > > governments manufacturing policies. > > > > > > > > Manufacturing has long been viewed as an essential pillar of a powerful > > economy. It generates millions of well-paid jobs for those with only a > high > > school education, a huge segment of the population. No other sector > > contributes more to the nations overall productivity, economists say. And > as > > manufacturing weakens, the country becomes ever more dependent on imports > of > > merchandise, computers, machinery and the like running up a trade deficit > > that in time could undermine the > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/c/currency/dol > > lar/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier> dollar and the nations capacity to > > sustain so many imports. > > > > > > > > One tactic for strengthening the manufacturing sector, in the > > administrations view, would be a shift in tax policy. The research and > > development tax credit, which is now subject to renewal by Congress, would > > be made permanent, encouraging much more R.& D. among manufacturers, a > > senior Commerce Department official argued. And foreign taxes paid on > > profits earned overseas would not be deductible in this country until the > > profits were repatriated, a restriction that might discourage locating > > factories abroad. > > > > > > > > The goal is to arrest manufacturings dizzying decline. It was the pillar > on > > which we built the middle class,said Thea Lee, policy director for the > > A.F.L.-C.I.O. > > > <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/a/america > > > n_federation_of_laborcongress_of_industrial_organizations/index.html?inline= > > nyt-org> , and it is hard to see how you rebuild the middle class without > > reviving manufacturing. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > Keith Hudson, Bath, England, <www.evolutionary-economics.org > > <http://www.evolutionary-economics.org/> >, > > <http://www.amazon.com/dp/1906557020 > <http://www.amazon.com/dp/1906557020/> > > / <http://www.amazon.com/dp/1906557020/> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
